Discussion:
Other Voices: Roger Sedarat
(too old to reply)
George Dance
2009-05-16 06:20:10 UTC
Permalink
I've been reading the Other Voices International cyber-anthology,
which archives over 600 poets from around the world. Actually, in one
month I've managed to read only the 15 poets archived in Vol. 40.

I've definitely found a preference in that volume: Roger Sedarat and
his 6-poem selection, "The Prophet."

Per the Other Voices bio: "Roger Sedarat is the author of Dear Regime:
Letters to the Islamic Republic (Ohio UP), which won the Hollis
Summers Prize. His poems and translations have appeared in such
journals as New England Review, Poet Lore, and Iranian.com. A
recipient of scholarships to the Bread Loaf Writers' Conference and a
St. Botolph poetry grant, he teaches poetry and translation in the MFA
program at Queens College, City University of New York."

As a sample of Sedarat's style, here's a selection from his poem,

The Prophet as Analysand

[...]

And the therapist said, “Think of it like
the rough draft of a poem, Haji,
just let your words escape without editing.

And Haji the poet cum prophet replied,
“Huffy Haji hid the day…”

“That’s John Berryman, Haji!” exclaimed the therapist.
“You're plagiarizing! Why do you feel the need to copy
when invited to speak for yourself?”

“Because,” replied Haji, “you’re only as sick
as your secrets.”

“Berrryman said that too!” Exclaimed the therapist.

[...]


plus a couple of stanzas from his ghazal,

Gazelle in a Ghazal

[...]

My Father cried his life was all a lie,
Perfect material for the ghazal.

As the lion will stalk its prey, the poet
Will seek to work his name in the ghazal.

[...]

Resisting the couplet’s will to define
Both constructs and deconstructs the ghazal.

[...]

In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---

Read more at:
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html
George Dance
2009-05-16 06:30:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
I've been reading the Other Voices International cyber-anthology,
which archives over 600 poets from around the world. Actually, in one
month I've managed to read only the 15 poets archived in Vol. 40.
I've definitely found a preference in that volume: Roger Sedarat and
his 6-poem selection, "The Prophet."
Actually, Sedarat's in Vol. 41, the most recent volume.
Post by George Dance
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html
Dale Houstman
2009-05-16 08:09:56 UTC
Permalink
Why are you stealing his poem?

dmh
George Dance
2009-05-17 01:47:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.

So here's that link again, for both those interested in reading some
good poetry, and potential Houstman-wannabes:

In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---

Read more at:
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html
Post by Dale Houstman
?
dmh
Will Dockery
2009-05-17 10:06:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Post by George Dance
So here's that link again, for both those interested in reading some
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html> ?

--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach.

George Dance
2009-05-19 02:16:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.

<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
So here's that link again, for both those interested in reading some
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html> ?
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Will Dockery
2009-05-20 15:59:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
That's a keeper of a quote!
Post by George Dance
So here's that link again, for both those interested in reading some
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html> ?
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Orson Wells as CitizenCain
2009-05-23 03:31:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
That's a keeper of a quote!



So is "Friends are overrated."
Post by George Dance
So here's that link again, for both those interested in reading some
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html> ?
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Will Dockery
2009-05-23 03:39:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
That's a keeper of a quote!
So is "Friends are overrated."
Sure is... it would be even moreso if you seemed to understand what
the statement means.

--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Post by Will Dockery
So here's that link again, for both those interested in reading some
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html> ?
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Orson Wells as CitizenCain
2009-05-23 03:55:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
That's a keeper of a quote!
So is "Friends are overrated."
Sure is... it would be even moreso if you seemed to understand what
the statement means.


I know what it means, Duckery. It means you're a self-absorbed asshole who
said "friends are overrated" and now you're trying to backpedal on what you
meant at the time, you Duckrish little clown.
Will Dockery
2009-05-23 04:00:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
That's a keeper of a quote!
So is "Friends are overrated."
Sure is... it would be even moreso if you seemed to understand what
the statement means.
I know what it means
Good for you, then!

--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Orson Wells as CitizenCain
2009-05-23 04:10:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
That's a keeper of a quote!
So is "Friends are overrated."
Sure is... it would be even moreso if you seemed to understand what
the statement means.
I know what it means
Good for you, then!
It means you're a worthless douchebag who is backpedalling on what he said
and how he said it, you post-snipping snipe.
Will Dockery
2009-05-23 04:16:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming" it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
That's a keeper of a quote!
So is "Friends are overrated."
Sure is... it would be even moreso if you seemed to understand what
the statement means.
I know what it means
Good for you, then!
It means <slap>
Exactly what it seems to mean.

--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Orson Wells as CitizenCain
2009-05-23 04:24:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly
better than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or
just borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming" it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
That's a keeper of a quote!
So is "Friends are overrated."
Sure is... it would be even moreso if you seemed to understand what
the statement means.
I know what it means
Good for you, then!
It means <slap>
Exactly what it seems to mean.
That you're a narcisstic fool who has lost numerous potential friends
because no one can stand to be around you? Check.
Will Dockery
2009-05-23 04:32:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly
better than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or
just borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming" it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
That's a keeper of a quote!
So is "Friends are overrated."
Sure is... it would be even moreso if you seemed to understand what
the statement means.
I know what it means
Good for you, then!
It means   <slap>
Exactly what it seems to mean.
That <slap>
That you're still suffering from reading comprehension problems?

"We know."

--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Orson Wells as CitizenCain
2009-05-23 05:05:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly
better than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or
just borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s
"transforming" it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
That's a keeper of a quote!
So is "Friends are overrated."
Sure is... it would be even moreso if you seemed to understand what
the statement means.
I know what it means
Good for you, then!
It means <slap>
Exactly what it seems to mean.
Exactly what it seems to mean.
That you're a narcisstic fool who has lost numerous potential friends
because no one can stand to be around you? Check.
Will Dockery
2009-05-23 05:14:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly
better than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or
just borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s
"transforming" it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal"
is done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen"
material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
That's a keeper of a quote!
So is "Friends are overrated."
Sure is... it would be even moreso if you seemed to understand what
the statement means.
I know what it means
Good for you, then!
It means <slap>
Exactly what it seems to mean.
Exactly what it seems to mean.
That you're <slap>
That you're still suffering comprehension problems?

"We know."

--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by Brian
Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Orson Wells as CitizenCain
2009-05-23 17:35:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale;
certainly
better than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or
just borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s
"transforming" it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the
"steal" is done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen"
material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
That's a keeper of a quote!
So is "Friends are overrated."
Sure is... it would be even moreso if you seemed to understand what
the statement means.
I know what it means
Good for you, then!
It means <slap>
Exactly what it seems to mean.
Exactly what it seems to mean.
That you're <slap>
You seem to have accidentally snipped something. Let me see what I can do.

--
Post by Will Dockery
Exactly what it seems to mean.
That you're a narcisstic fool who has lost numerous potential friends
because no one can stand to be around you? Check.
--
Will Dockery
2009-05-23 05:24:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
Since "transforming" and making the borrowed poetry "anew" is out of his
creative range, Dale's quote ironically counts /himself/ out of the game.

--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by Brian
Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Post by George Dance
So here's that link again, for both those interested in reading some
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html> ?
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Orson Wells as CitizenCain
2009-05-23 17:39:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
Since "transforming" and making the borrowed poetry "anew" is out of his
creative range, Dale's quote ironically counts /himself/ out of the game.
What "game" would that be, pray tell?
Will Dockery
2009-05-23 18:49:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orson Wells as CitizenCain
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
Since "transforming" and making the borrowed poetry "anew" is out of his
creative range, Dale's quote ironically counts /himself/ out of the game.
What "game" would that be, pray tell?
The "game" of creating and writing original poetry... something you of
course know less than nothing about.

Any other questions before you try to write your first poem?

--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Orson Wells as CitizenCain
2009-05-27 14:23:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Orson Wells as CitizenCain
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
Since "transforming" and making the borrowed poetry "anew" is out of his
creative range, Dale's quote ironically counts /himself/ out of the game.
What "game" would that be, pray tell?
The "game" of creating and writing original poetry...


You've already lost, then.
George Dance
2009-05-25 01:24:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman>
Since "transforming" and making the borrowed poetry "anew" is out of his
creative range, Dale's quote ironically counts /himself/ out of the game.
Well, that to my mind is the important question; because to me Dale's
quote by itself isn't that controversial; I don't see him saying
essentially the same thing as Eliot did here:

“mature poets steal; ... and good poets make it into something better,
or at least
something different. The good poet welds his theft into a whole of
feeling which is unique, utterly different from that from which it was
torn" But there's also the other side of the coin, as Eliot added:
“bad poets deface what they take, ... the bad poet throws it into
something which has no cohesion."
- T.S. Eliot, “Philip Massinger.” /The Sacred Wood/.
http://www.bartleby.com/200/sw11.html

In judging Dale's use of the method, or anyone else's (for instance,
you mentioned Bob Dylan, who's a prime exemplar), it's important to
judge the results.
Post by Will Dockery
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by Brian
Mallard. Paintings by George http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html> ?
Will Dockery
2009-05-26 23:09:45 UTC
Permalink
[....]
----
On his current (and brilliant, btw) album, Together Through Life,
Dylan has a songwriting partner, Robert Hunter of the Grateful Dead,
who shares co-writing credit on the words, so maybe we (or I, at
least) won't have to go through such angst and turmoil at the thought
of Bob Dylan as a plagiarist.
And maybe Dale Houstman will likewise redeem himself someday soon.
That's libel. You do realize that, don't you?
My hope that Dale will redeem himself -to my opinion of him- is libel?
I understand that Dale's borrowing of other people's poetry is
completely legal, as the Dylan situation probably proves, since he's
done the same thing for years... why is stating the obvious libel? Did
you read Stuart Leichter's expert opinion on this whole "post-art age
of plagiarism and collage" (Dale's phrase) discussion, or is that too
far buried? I'll go locate it for you, he, as an expert in copyright
law, not to mention a better writer than me, puts the point across
very well, and I assume you might or might be interested..?
And then, also obviously, Dale's accusing me and others here of
"thievery", among other unprovable statements, is also this?
--
'She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
ah,
and now you've got another "lawyer" accusing you
of possible liable.
at some point, i hope we get back to poetry.
alt.law might sue aapc for stealing topics.
Thanks, man.

After all the lies about me and my life, all the defense and applause
when my poetry is stolen, after all the hate and garbage that has been
dumped on me over the years here on Usenet, and hardly a word from
anyone about it -I can pretty much say not a word- not even a peep
when not only my name, but my family and friends are smeared up and
down, back and forth, I have to say I'm a bit offended.

But I'm Will Dockery... keep punching, I'm still standing.

--
'She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Will Dockery
2009-05-27 10:54:00 UTC
Permalink
Did you read Stuart Leichter's expert opinion on this whole "post-art age
of plagiarism and collage" (Dale's phrase) discussion, or is that too
far buried? I'll go locate it for you, he, as an expert in copyright
law, not to mention a better writer than me, puts the point across
very well, and I assume you might or might be interested..?
You sure you understood what he was saying?
Sure, he was very clear with what he was saying:

"...Back in the 90s owing to EZ www access, the Dean of Students
(he's
also a lawyer) at one of our campuses and I workshopped our faculty
about 'plagiarism'. Right, I'm a trained professional about so-called
plagiarism. The euphemistic rubric had become known as 'academic
integrity', plagiarism became a behavioral issue instead of an
academic issue, following then-recent court decisions about
plagiarism
in secondary and higher education academic settings. You couldn't
outright flunk the bastard in the course for cheating. Even if the
course was called Ethics. From what I can tell here in this thread,
none of y'all knows enough about plagiarism to say something
dispositive one way or another. As an expert I will assure you,
George, that Dale plagiarized Alacrity in the within matter, and
also,
it can be ignored, not mentioned, as though it weren't plagiarism;
given the context (here on Usenet's aapc, or in a classroom setting),
it's a subjective judgment, so what matters is who's judging and if
the judge is qualified. I'm qualified. More? Even had Houstman given
credit and attribution to Alacrity, he still plagiarized Alacrity -
that is, if I say so and can show the improper borrowing (but I would
sooner eat broken glass). Everything depends on who makes the rules
and who can enforce them. Whatever Alacrity says means nothing.
Besides, Alacrity is anonymous - a made-up name - who deemed me a
composer of pornographic poetry, another reason to ignore his stupid
ejaculations here. Incidentally, I would never in my wildest fancy
consider the Houstman version of Alacrity's piece 'plagiarism' simply
because poets have a license to compose however they see fit. Only
poets have that license.' -Stuart Leichter

Stuart plainly states that he judges the poem to be plagiarism, but as
you pointed out, since it was poetry he feels it was okay. Which is
where we are at this point. While borrowing another man's poem to
generate your own is legal, and particularly acceptable in poetry, the
method is the opposite of original thought, since a borrowed thought
can't be original, after all, which matches my (non expert) opinion
pretty closely.

--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Will Dockery
2009-05-27 01:05:22 UTC
Permalink
However, it behooves Mr Dockery - acting in good conscience - to bring
my "plagiarism" <snip>
I'm not calling you a plagiarist, Dale...
Why then did you change the topics of many existing posts to "Dale M.
Houstman: "It is okay to steal..."? That act in and of itself is
incendiary and you know it.
Actually, there was a precise reason I changed it, since the message I was
responding to was Dale yammering away at George, something like (I'll go
back to the original post for exactness, later) "You're going to steal his
poem, as usual?".

So, what better response than to repost Dale Houstman's direct quote about
how it is "okay" to "steal", anyway? In other words, why is he concerned
about George, who he falsely accused of "thievery" already in the past, when
he's been quoted as proclaiming stealing is okay with him, anyways?
you can take any poetry you
want, rearrange the words and call it your own anytime you please, put
your name on it without credit to the original poet, and that's
perfectly legal. I can do the same, any American can... some of us,
for better or for worse, tend to prefer writing original poetry, and
we each can make our choices.
Look up the word "original" - one of its meanings is "inventive".
That's not the meaning you're using for original, is it?
You think that you're more original than Dale because you draw from
the dictionary maybe?
Well, okay, I guess you just don't get it, and maube never will... so never
mind.

Looking at the latest dictionaries sold on
Amazon, the New Oxford dictionary contains about 250,000 words and the
Merriam Webster about 75,000. Is the person who draws from the New
Oxford more or less creative than the person who draws from Merriam
Webster? I'm guessing that you'd say the person drawing from the New
Oxford because it has the most words? Right? I mean, your words have a
source right? You're not using a lexicon from another planet?
Is it beyond you that someone could take a smaller sampling of words
than is found in any dictionary and rearrange them in an original and
creative fashion? I think it is. The kind of nonsense you're spouting
off leads to a challenge. Take two people, like you and another
person. Sit them down and have them make a list of all the words they
know. Do you think the person with the longest list would write the
best and most original poem?
Well, the thoughts, the ideas, should come before the actual words, in fact,
the original thought dictates the words that manifest.

That's as simply put as possible, and it seems even you can understand at
least that much of my feelings about writing poetry.

Not making any claims on quality here, just originality.

Here's how this thread started, with Dale making the statement about george,
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.

<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman
So here's that link again, for both those interested in reading some
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html> ?
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by Brian
Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Karla
2009-05-27 01:23:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
However, it behooves Mr Dockery - acting in good conscience - to bring
my "plagiarism" <snip>
I'm not calling you a plagiarist, Dale...
Why then did you change the topics of many existing posts to "Dale M.
Houstman: "It is okay to steal..."? That act in and of itself is
incendiary and you know it.
Actually, there was a precise reason I changed it, since the message I was
responding to was Dale yammering away at George, something like (I'll go
back to the original post for exactness, later) "You're going to steal his
poem, as usual?".
You're pretending that this one thread exists in a vacuum, that Dale's
post is the first of its kind on the subject. Nuance and humor are
lost on you.
Post by Will Dockery
So, what better response than to repost Dale Houstman's direct quote about
how it is "okay" to "steal", anyway? In other words, why is he concerned
about George, who he falsely accused of "thievery" already in the past, when
he's been quoted as proclaiming stealing is okay with him, anyways?
You are pretending that Dale said it's just plain okay to steal. That
way you can change the title of the thread in a passive-aggressive
way. Or is it that you didn't understand the many posts about how an
original poem is born and thrives?
Post by Will Dockery
you can take any poetry you
want, rearrange the words and call it your own anytime you please, put
your name on it without credit to the original poet, and that's
perfectly legal. I can do the same, any American can... some of us,
for better or for worse, tend to prefer writing original poetry, and
we each can make our choices.
Look up the word "original" - one of its meanings is "inventive".
That's not the meaning you're using for original, is it?
You think that you're more original than Dale because you draw from
the dictionary maybe?
Well, okay, I guess you just don't get it, and maube never will... so never
mind.
That's not responsive to my question. Where do your words come from?
Not another planet, right? We all speak English here. It's you that
refuses to understand that it might be far more creative to make a
poem from a smaller subset of words than the dictionary.
Post by Will Dockery
Looking at the latest dictionaries sold on
Amazon, the New Oxford dictionary contains about 250,000 words and the
Merriam Webster about 75,000. Is the person who draws from the New
Oxford more or less creative than the person who draws from Merriam
Webster? I'm guessing that you'd say the person drawing from the New
Oxford because it has the most words? Right? I mean, your words have a
source right? You're not using a lexicon from another planet?
Is it beyond you that someone could take a smaller sampling of words
than is found in any dictionary and rearrange them in an original and
creative fashion? I think it is. The kind of nonsense you're spouting
off leads to a challenge. Take two people, like you and another
person. Sit them down and have them make a list of all the words they
know. Do you think the person with the longest list would write the
best and most original poem?
Well, the thoughts, the ideas, should come before the actual words, in fact,
the original thought dictates the words that manifest.
Are you judging Dale's thoughts? How do you know what he thinks?
Post by Will Dockery
That's as simply put as possible, and it seems even you can understand at
least that much of my feelings about writing poetry.
Remember those two poems I put up the last time we chatted about this?
The shepherd poems? They shared a number of words but the argument of
each poem is different. Perhaps it's hard for you to understand many
of the poems posted so you're unable to see the creativity in thought?
Perhaps it's easier just to note different words and label that
"original" or "creative"?
Post by Will Dockery
Not making any claims on quality here, just originality.
Here's how this thread started, with Dale making the statement about george,
Like I said above, you're pretending that this thread exists in a
vacuum. You pretend that Dale is only responding to this one post of
George's and not poking at what's gone before.

Karla
Post by Will Dockery
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman
So here's that link again, for both those interested in reading some
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html> ?
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by Brian
Mallard. Paintings by George http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Will Dockery
2009-05-27 01:49:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Actually, there was a precise reason I changed it, since the message I was
responding to was Dale yammering away at George, something like (I'll go
back to the original post for exactness, later) "You're going to steal his
poem, as usual?".
You're pretending that this one thread exists in a vacuum, that Dale's
post is the first of its kind on the subject. Nuance and humor are
lost on you.

//Yammering about someone stealing poetry, calling poets "thieves" without
any evidence at all is funny to you? Heh... I suppose I'm guilty of being a
serious fellow, then, yes.
Post by Will Dockery
So, what better response than to repost Dale Houstman's direct quote about
how it is "okay" to "steal", anyway? In other words, why is he concerned
about George, who he falsely accused of "thievery" already in the past, when
he's been quoted as proclaiming stealing is okay with him, anyways?
You are pretending that Dale said it's just plain okay to steal.

//Nope, Dale's entire quote is included in the post.
Post by Will Dockery
you can take any poetry you
want, rearrange the words and call it your own anytime you please, put
your name on it without credit to the original poet, and that's
perfectly legal. I can do the same, any American can... some of us,
for better or for worse, tend to prefer writing original poetry, and
we each can make our choices.
Look up the word "original" - one of its meanings is "inventive".
That's not the meaning you're using for original, is it?
You think that you're more original than Dale because you draw from
the dictionary maybe?
Well, okay, I guess you just don't get it, and maube never will... so never
mind.
That's not responsive to my question. Where do your words come from?

//My words are used to describe /my/ situation, the thoughts in my head...
not from looking at another poet's poem, borrowing /those/ words and ideas,
and generating a poem from that.
Post by Will Dockery
Looking at the latest dictionaries sold on
Amazon, the New Oxford dictionary contains about 250,000 words and the
Merriam Webster about 75,000. Is the person who draws from the New
Oxford more or less creative than the person who draws from Merriam
Webster? I'm guessing that you'd say the person drawing from the New
Oxford because it has the most words? Right? I mean, your words have a
source right? You're not using a lexicon from another planet?
Is it beyond you that someone could take a smaller sampling of words
than is found in any dictionary and rearrange them in an original and
creative fashion? I think it is. The kind of nonsense you're spouting
off leads to a challenge. Take two people, like you and another
person. Sit them down and have them make a list of all the words they
know. Do you think the person with the longest list would write the
best and most original poem?
Well, the thoughts, the ideas, should come before the actual words, in fact,
the original thought dictates the words that manifest.
Are you judging Dale's thoughts? How do you know what he thinks?

//Not at all. I'm writing about the way /I/ think.
Post by Will Dockery
That's as simply put as possible, and it seems even you can understand at
least that much of my feelings about writing poetry.
Remember those two poems I put up the last time we chatted about this?
The shepherd poems? They shared a number of words but the argument of
each poem is different.

//Yes, and that was very interesting.

I even gave such a method a shot with Rik Roots' "Portsmouth Thongs", using
his words to generate a new poem, but it remains shelved since that method
doesn't appeal to me, personally. I find the method cheap, lazy and
unoriginal.

But, as you've shown me, perfcetly legal, acceptable to those who like that
sort of thing, and not "plagiarism".

So, what's to argue about? I have my opinion, and you have yours.

--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by Brian
Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Rob Evans
2009-05-30 12:44:08 UTC
Permalink
"Karla" <***@comcast.net> wrote in message news:268b62b5-cf11-447f-ab0c-***@p21g2000prn.googlegroups.com...

You're not using a lexicon from another planet?
As a matter of fact...

Rob


--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access
George Dance
2009-05-27 01:31:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
However, it behooves Mr Dockery - acting in good conscience - to bring
my "plagiarism" <snip>
I'm not calling you a plagiarist, Dale...
Why then did you change the topics of many existing posts to "Dale M.
Houstman: "It is okay to steal..."? That act in and of itself is
incendiary and you know it.
Actually, there was a precise reason I changed it, since the message I was
responding to was Dale yammering away at George, something like (I'll go
back to the original post for exactness, later) "You're going to steal his
poem, as usual?".
IIRC, it was "Why are you stealing his [Sedarat's] poem?"

Maybe Karla would feel more comfortable discussing that topic
instead.
Post by Will Dockery
So, what better response than to repost Dale Houstman's direct quote about
how it is "okay" to "steal", anyway? In other words, why is he concerned
about George, who
"whom". Using "who" for "whom" could be considered plagiarizing Little
Beau Blue. (Cf his poem of today.)
http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/8de65c3af18d3519?hl=en
Post by Will Dockery
he falsely accused of "thievery" already in the past, when
he's been quoted as proclaiming stealing is okay with him, anyways?
Somehow I don't expect an answer ...
Post by Will Dockery
you can take any poetry you
want, rearrange the words and call it your own anytime you please, put
your name on it without credit to the original poet, and that's
perfectly legal. I can do the same, any American can... some of us,
for better or for worse, tend to prefer writing original poetry, and
we each can make our choices.
Look up the word "original" - one of its meanings is "inventive".
That's not the meaning you're using for original, is it?
You think that you're more original than Dale because you draw from
the dictionary maybe?
Well, okay, I guess you just don't get it, and maube never will... so never
mind.
Looking at the latest dictionaries sold on
Amazon, the New Oxford dictionary contains about 250,000 words and the
Merriam Webster about 75,000. Is the person who draws from the New
Oxford more or less creative than the person who draws from Merriam
Webster? I'm guessing that you'd say the person drawing from the New
Oxford because it has the most words? Right? I mean, your words have a
source right? You're not using a lexicon from another planet?
Is it beyond you that someone could take a smaller sampling of words
than is found in any dictionary and rearrange them in an original and
creative fashion? I think it is. The kind of nonsense you're spouting
off leads to a challenge. Take two people, like you and another
person. Sit them down and have them make a list of all the words they
know. Do you think the person with the longest list would write the
best and most original poem?
Well, the thoughts, the ideas, should come before the actual words, in fact,
the original thought dictates the words that manifest.
That's as simply put as possible, and it seems even you can understand at
least that much of my feelings about writing poetry.
Not making any claims on quality here, just originality.
Here's how this thread started, with Dale making the statement about george,
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman
So here's that link again, for both those interested in reading some
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by Brian
Mallard. Paintings by George http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Karla
2009-05-27 01:46:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
However, it behooves Mr Dockery - acting in good conscience - to bring
my "plagiarism" <snip>
I'm not calling you a plagiarist, Dale...
Why then did you change the topics of many existing posts to "Dale M.
Houstman: "It is okay to steal..."? That act in and of itself is
incendiary and you know it.
Actually, there was a precise reason I changed it, since the message I was
responding to was Dale yammering away at George, something like (I'll go
back to the original post for exactness, later) "You're going to steal his
poem, as usual?".
IIRC, it was "Why are you stealing his [Sedarat's] poem?"
Maybe Karla would feel more comfortable discussing that topic
instead.
You're pretending now too?

Karla
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
So, what better response than to repost Dale Houstman's direct quote about
how it is "okay" to "steal", anyway? In other words, why is he concerned
about George, who
"whom". Using "who" for "whom" could be considered plagiarizing Little
Beau Blue.  (Cf  his poem of today.)http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/8de65c3af1...
Post by Will Dockery
he falsely accused of "thievery" already in the past, when
he's been quoted as proclaiming stealing is okay with him, anyways?
Somehow I don't expect an answer ...
Post by Will Dockery
you can take any poetry you
want, rearrange the words and call it your own anytime you please, put
your name on it without credit to the original poet, and that's
perfectly legal. I can do the same, any American can... some of us,
for better or for worse, tend to prefer writing original poetry, and
we each can make our choices.
Look up the word "original" - one of its meanings is "inventive".
That's not the meaning you're using for original, is it?
You think that you're more original than Dale because you draw from
the dictionary maybe?
Well, okay, I guess you just don't get it, and maube never will... so never
mind.
Looking at the latest dictionaries sold on
Amazon, the New Oxford dictionary contains about 250,000 words and the
Merriam Webster about 75,000. Is the person who draws from the New
Oxford more or less creative than the person who draws from Merriam
Webster? I'm guessing that you'd say the person drawing from the New
Oxford because it has the most words? Right? I mean, your words have a
source right? You're not using a lexicon from another planet?
Is it beyond you that someone could take a smaller sampling of words
than is found in any dictionary and rearrange them in an original and
creative fashion? I think it is. The kind of nonsense you're spouting
off leads to a challenge. Take two people, like you and another
person. Sit them down and have them make a list of all the words they
know. Do you think the person with the longest list would write the
best and most original poem?
Well, the thoughts, the ideas, should come before the actual words, in fact,
the original thought dictates the words that manifest.
That's as simply put as possible, and it seems even you can understand at
least that much of my feelings about writing poetry.
Not making any claims on quality here, just originality.
Here's how this thread started, with Dale making the statement about george,
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman
So here's that link again, for both those interested in reading some
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by Brian
Mallard. Paintings by George
Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
George Dance
2009-05-27 10:41:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
However, it behooves Mr Dockery - acting in good conscience - to bring
my "plagiarism" <snip>
I'm not calling you a plagiarist, Dale...
Why then did you change the topics of many existing posts to "Dale M.
Houstman: "It is okay to steal..."? That act in and of itself is
incendiary and you know it.
Actually, there was a precise reason I changed it, since the message I was
responding to was Dale yammering away at George, something like (I'll go
back to the original post for exactness, later) "You're going to steal his
poem, as usual?".
IIRC, it was "Why are you stealing his [Sedarat's] poem?"
Maybe Karla would feel more comfortable discussing that topic
instead.
You're pretending now too?
Karla
No, just remembering the last time Dale accused me of stealing poetry,
and who else was bragging about having my "back to the wall" here that
time. Do you remember? It wasn't that long ago.
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
So, what better response than to repost Dale Houstman's direct quote about
how it is "okay" to "steal", anyway? In other words, why is he concerned
about George, who
"whom". Using "who" for "whom" could be considered plagiarizing Little
Beau Blue.  (Cf  his poem of today.)http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/8de65c3af1...
Post by Will Dockery
he falsely accused of "thievery" already in the past, when
he's been quoted as proclaiming stealing is okay with him, anyways?
Somehow I don't expect an answer ...
Post by Will Dockery
you can take any poetry you
want, rearrange the words and call it your own anytime you please, put
your name on it without credit to the original poet, and that's
perfectly legal. I can do the same, any American can... some of us,
for better or for worse, tend to prefer writing original poetry, and
we each can make our choices.
Look up the word "original" - one of its meanings is "inventive".
That's not the meaning you're using for original, is it?
You think that you're more original than Dale because you draw from
the dictionary maybe?
Well, okay, I guess you just don't get it, and maube never will... so never
mind.
Looking at the latest dictionaries sold on
Amazon, the New Oxford dictionary contains about 250,000 words and the
Merriam Webster about 75,000. Is the person who draws from the New
Oxford more or less creative than the person who draws from Merriam
Webster? I'm guessing that you'd say the person drawing from the New
Oxford because it has the most words? Right? I mean, your words have a
source right? You're not using a lexicon from another planet?
Is it beyond you that someone could take a smaller sampling of words
than is found in any dictionary and rearrange them in an original and
creative fashion? I think it is. The kind of nonsense you're spouting
off leads to a challenge. Take two people, like you and another
person. Sit them down and have them make a list of all the words they
know. Do you think the person with the longest list would write the
best and most original poem?
Well, the thoughts, the ideas, should come before the actual words, in fact,
the original thought dictates the words that manifest.
That's as simply put as possible, and it seems even you can understand at
least that much of my feelings about writing poetry.
Not making any claims on quality here, just originality.
Here's how this thread started, with Dale making the statement about george,
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman
So here's that link again, for both those interested in reading some
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by Brian
Mallard. Paintings by George
quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Will Dockery
2009-05-27 11:04:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Actually, there was a precise reason I changed it, since the message I was
responding to was Dale yammering away at George, something like (I'll go
back to the original post for exactness, later) "You're going to steal his
poem, as usual?".
IIRC, it was "Why are you stealing his [Sedarat's] poem?"
Maybe Karla would feel more comfortable discussing that topic
instead.
You're pretending now too?
Karla
No, just remembering the last time Dale accused me of stealing poetry,
and who else was bragging about having my "back to the wall" here that
time.  Do you remember? It wasn't that long ago.
Which is exactly why the subject of Dale's habit of borrowing the
poetry of others to generate his own came up then and now. He wants to
rattle and lie (since he makes the statements with zero proof) about
you and others "stealing" poetry, being "inept thieves" and so on,
meanwhile creating poetry with a method an expert, Stuart Leichter
might use the same words to describe.
Post by George Dance
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
So, what better response than to repost Dale Houstman's direct quote about
Post by Will Dockery
how it is "okay" to "steal", anyway? In other words, why is he concerned
about George, who
"whom". Using "who" for "whom" could be considered plagiarizing Little
Beau Blue.  (Cf  his poem of today.)http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/8de65c3af1...
Post by Will Dockery
he falsely accused of "thievery" already in the past, when
he's been quoted as proclaiming stealing is okay with him, anyways?
Somehow I don't expect an answer ...
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
you can take any poetry you
want, rearrange the words and call it your own anytime you please, put
your name on it without credit to the original poet, and that's
perfectly legal. I can do the same, any American can... some of us,
for better or for worse, tend to prefer writing original poetry, and
we each can make our choices.
Well, the thoughts, the ideas, should come before the actual words, in fact,
the original thought dictates the words that manifest.
That's as simply put as possible, and it seems even you can understand at
least that much of my feelings about writing poetry.
Not making any claims on quality here, just originality.
Here's how this thread started, with Dale making the statement about george,
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Dale Houstman
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.
<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman
Post by Will Dockery
So here's that link again, for both those interested in reading some
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Will Dockery
2009-05-27 01:05:22 UTC
Permalink
However, it behooves Mr Dockery - acting in good conscience - to bring
my "plagiarism" <snip>
I'm not calling you a plagiarist, Dale...
Why then did you change the topics of many existing posts to "Dale M.
Houstman: "It is okay to steal..."? That act in and of itself is
incendiary and you know it.
Actually, there was a precise reason I changed it, since the message I was
responding to was Dale yammering away at George, something like (I'll go
back to the original post for exactness, later) "You're going to steal his
poem, as usual?".

So, what better response than to repost Dale Houstman's direct quote about
how it is "okay" to "steal", anyway? In other words, why is he concerned
about George, who he falsely accused of "thievery" already in the past, when
he's been quoted as proclaiming stealing is okay with him, anyways?
you can take any poetry you
want, rearrange the words and call it your own anytime you please, put
your name on it without credit to the original poet, and that's
perfectly legal. I can do the same, any American can... some of us,
for better or for worse, tend to prefer writing original poetry, and
we each can make our choices.
Look up the word "original" - one of its meanings is "inventive".
That's not the meaning you're using for original, is it?
You think that you're more original than Dale because you draw from
the dictionary maybe?
Well, okay, I guess you just don't get it, and maube never will... so never
mind.

Looking at the latest dictionaries sold on
Amazon, the New Oxford dictionary contains about 250,000 words and the
Merriam Webster about 75,000. Is the person who draws from the New
Oxford more or less creative than the person who draws from Merriam
Webster? I'm guessing that you'd say the person drawing from the New
Oxford because it has the most words? Right? I mean, your words have a
source right? You're not using a lexicon from another planet?
Is it beyond you that someone could take a smaller sampling of words
than is found in any dictionary and rearrange them in an original and
creative fashion? I think it is. The kind of nonsense you're spouting
off leads to a challenge. Take two people, like you and another
person. Sit them down and have them make a list of all the words they
know. Do you think the person with the longest list would write the
best and most original poem?
Well, the thoughts, the ideas, should come before the actual words, in fact,
the original thought dictates the words that manifest.

That's as simply put as possible, and it seems even you can understand at
least that much of my feelings about writing poetry.

Not making any claims on quality here, just originality.

Here's how this thread started, with Dale making the statement about george,
stealing his poem
And I'm sure you'll do a great job on it too, Dale; certainly better
than you'd do on an original.
Dale can't seem to make up his mind, is he stealing the poem or just
borrowing it?
Well, the important question is whether or not he"s "transforming"
it.

<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done
with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen" material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman
So here's that link again, for both those interested in reading some
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html> ?
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by Brian
Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Will Dockery
2009-06-09 09:47:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale Houstman
Why are you stealing his poem?
dmh
Why do you care why? Don't you still think "It is okay to steal..."?

As you wrote, and I quote:

<quote>
You are correct of course: it is okay to "steal" if the "steal" is
done with such sensitivity and art that it transforms the "stolen"
material
-
i.e. makes it anew. </q> - Dale Houstman
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by George Dance
So here's that link again, for both those interested in reading some
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html> ?
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach.
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Will Dockery
2009-05-27 07:50:13 UTC
Permalink
"Check it out" customarily means you're giving a message ID or link.
"Back in the 90s owing to EZ www access, the Dean of Students (he's
also a lawyer) at one of our campuses and I workshopped our faculty
about 'plagiarism'. Right, I'm a trained professional about so-called
plagiarism.[...]  As an expert I will assure you,
George, that Dale plagiarized Alacrity in the within matter, and also,
it can be ignored, not mentioned, as though it weren't plagiarism;
given the context (here on Usenet's aapc [...])"
http://groups.google.ca/group/rec.arts.poems/msg/c0320ba76cef8301?hl=en
Hmmm... it's amusing the way nobody ever seems to see this post, just
as when Stuart first wrote it, and now, everyone seems to just gloss
past it.

Wonder why?

--
Twilight Girl, written by Will Dockery & Henry Conley, from the CD
Shadowville Speedway. © 2009
Vocals: Will Dockery, Guitar: Henry Conley, Bass: Doug Conley, Flute:
Gene Woolfolk, Jr. Drums: John Phillips.

And then, also obviously, Dale's accusing me and others here of
"thievery", among other unprovable statements, is also this?
--
'She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Will Dockery
2009-05-28 22:04:09 UTC
Permalink
[....]
btw- the folk tradition actually has its roots in
Weimar Germany.  it was the very beginnings of what
was to become the national socialists.  don't you love
the irony?
The folk tradition (especially that portion of it
which grew into the American folk tradition via America's English
heritage) derives from Old English and Scottish and Irish and Welsh
minstrelsy.
That's a simplistic, typically narrow-minded description of the "folk
tradition", DMH, but who among us would expect otherwise from a man
such as you, with so few original thoughts? Your ability to make
connections beyond your own little plate is made obvious on a daily
basis, as we know.
i'm talking about the volkisch movement and it's traditional german
values in relation to the folk movement and it's traditional american
german irish
values.  both based on anti-capitalist and socialist ideals.
the volkisch wiemar movement was right-winged socialism, while the
american
folk movement was left-winged.  what... you don't believe
that there was an ideology in the american folk tradition?
i'm not even going to continue this discussion.
this coming from the same man that claims jim morrisson
is an expendable poet, easily replaced.
the truth is, talking to you makes me stupid.  not because
you're so much smarter, but because i actually feel myself
getting stupid while attempting a dialog with you.
For such a self-proclaimed "smart guy", Dale is a bit dense, he's just
decided certain things and then they just become true to him. His door
is locked tight, so to speak.

I read about the Volks a few years back when I was studying Carl
Jung... it was kind of a nice idea that went really, really bad.

--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Will Dockery
2009-06-03 23:01:41 UTC
Permalink
Since Dale used half of another poet's poem to write his poem,
Counting word-for-word, Dale did that. Half the words in the poem can
be spotted in the original poem by Alacrity Stone, and they were laid
side-by-side to show this.
Which has been established as "okay", as the title of this thread
makes obvious.
<snip>
Since I am not claiming Dale Houstman commited plagiarism, your
response is misdirected.
So what you're saying is counting half the words in the original
Counting word-for-word, it is shown that half the words in the poem
generated by Dale Houstman can be spotted in the original poem by
Alacrity Stone

--
"Preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, prevents us
from living freely and nobly." -H.D. Thoreau (via Mama Fal)

"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery & Brian Mallard (video):
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Karla
2009-06-03 23:10:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Since Dale used half of another poet's poem to write his poem,
Counting word-for-word, Dale did that. Half the words in the poem can
be spotted in the original poem by Alacrity Stone, and they were laid
side-by-side to show this.
Which has been established as "okay", as the title of this thread
makes obvious.
<snip>
Since I am not claiming Dale Houstman commited plagiarism, your
response is misdirected.
So what you're saying is counting half the words in the original
Counting word-for-word, it is shown that half the words in the poem
generated by Dale Houstman can be spotted in the original poem by
Alacrity Stone
I see - so Alacrity Stone generated the words shown in the spotted
half that became an original poem by Dale Houstman?

Karla
Will Dockery
2009-06-03 23:19:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
Since Dale used half of another poet's poem to write his poem, that's been established.
Counting word-for-word, Dale did that. Half the words in the poem can
be spotted in the original poem by Alacrity Stone, and they were laid
side-by-side to show this.
Which has been established as "okay", as the title of this thread
makes obvious.
<snip>
Since I am not claiming Dale Houstman commited plagiarism, your
response is misdirected.
So what you're saying is counting half the words in the original
Counting word-for-word, it is shown that half the words in the poem
generated by Dale Houstman can be spotted in the original poem by
Alacrity Stone
I see - so Alacrity Stone generated the words
Obviously, without Alacrity Stone's poem, there would have been no
Dale Houstman poem, if that's what you're asking.

--
"Preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, prevents us
from living freely and nobly." -H.D. Thoreau (via Mama Fal)

"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery & Brian Mallard (video):
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Karla
2009-06-03 23:27:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
Since Dale used half of another poet's poem to write his poem, that's been established.
Counting word-for-word, Dale did that. Half the words in the poem can
be spotted in the original poem by Alacrity Stone, and they were laid
side-by-side to show this.
Which has been established as "okay", as the title of this thread
makes obvious.
<snip>
Since I am not claiming Dale Houstman commited plagiarism, your
response is misdirected.
So what you're saying is counting half the words in the original
Counting word-for-word, it is shown that half the words in the poem
generated by Dale Houstman can be spotted in the original poem by
Alacrity Stone
I see - so Alacrity Stone generated the words
Obviously, without Alacrity Stone's poem, there would have been no
Dale Houstman poem, if that's what you're asking.
Then you agree that the poem was obviously asking Alacrity Stone that
without Dale Houstman there would have been no poem?
Will Dockery
2009-06-03 23:35:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
I see - so Alacrity Stone generated the words
Obviously, without Alacrity Stone's poem, there would have been no
Dale Houstman poem, if that's what you're asking.
Then you agree that the poem was obviously asking Alacrity Stone that
without Dale Houstman there would have been no poem?
The poem by Alacrity Stone existed before Dale generated his version
from it. Counting word-for-word, it is shown that half the words in
the poem generated by Dale Houstman can be spotted in the original
poem by Alacrity Stone

--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery & Brian Mallard (video):
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Karla
2009-06-03 23:46:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
I see - so Alacrity Stone generated the words
Obviously, without Alacrity Stone's poem, there would have been no
Dale Houstman poem, if that's what you're asking.
Then you agree that the poem was obviously asking Alacrity Stone that
without Dale Houstman there would have been no poem?
The poem by Alacrity Stone existed before Dale generated his version
from it. Counting word-for-word, it is shown that half the words in
the poem generated by Dale Houstman can be spotted in the original
poem by Alacrity Stone
Are you disagreeing that the Alacrity Stone version word-for-word is
shown and is half the existed words, counting the generated Alacrity
Stone and the original Dale Houstman before the poem was spotted?

Karla
Will Dockery
2009-06-03 23:58:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
I see - so Alacrity Stone generated the words
Obviously, without Alacrity Stone's poem, there would have been no
Dale Houstman poem, if that's what you're asking.
Then you agree that the poem was obviously asking Alacrity Stone that
without Dale Houstman there would have been no poem?
The poem by Alacrity Stone existed before Dale generated his version
from it. Counting word-for-word, it is shown that half the words in
the poem generated by Dale Houstman can be spotted in the original
poem by Alacrity Stone
Are you disagreeing that the Alacrity Stone version word-for-word is shown
And half the poem matched the later Dale Houstman version, yes.

--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery & Brian Mallard (video):
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Karla
2009-06-04 00:02:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
I see - so Alacrity Stone generated the words
Obviously, without Alacrity Stone's poem, there would have been no
Dale Houstman poem, if that's what you're asking.
Then you agree that the poem was obviously asking Alacrity Stone that
without Dale Houstman there would have been no poem?
The poem by Alacrity Stone existed before Dale generated his version
from it. Counting word-for-word, it is shown that half the words in
the poem generated by Dale Houstman can be spotted in the original
poem by Alacrity Stone
Are you disagreeing that the Alacrity Stone version word-for-word is shown
And half the poem matched the later Dale Houstman version, yes.
Are you saying that Dale Houstman's poem is a new version of half of
Alacrity Stone's later poem?

Karla
Will Dockery
2009-06-04 00:07:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karla
Are you saying that Dale Houstman's poem is a new version of half of
Alacrity Stone's poem?
That's a good way to put it, really.

--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery & Brian Mallard (video):
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Karla
2009-06-04 00:19:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
Are you saying that Dale Houstman's poem is a new version of half of
Alacrity Stone's later poem?
That's a good way to put it, really.
Okay, I put it the good way I wrote it. Really.

I hope these posts have been helpful to you, Will. I've used more than
half of your words but, as you squirmingly avoided admitting, the new
order of the words conveyed a completely different message than your
message. Therefore, my message was not your message. Words can be
rearranged to mean something completely new and different. And even
before you arranged the words, they were used and arranged in a
different pattern.

Karla
Will Dockery
2009-06-04 00:31:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
Are you saying that Dale Houstman's poem is a new version of half of
Alacrity Stone's poem?
That's a good way to put it, really.
Okay, I put it the good way I wrote it. Really.
You made a slight mistake, which I corrected, since Alacrity Stone's poem
came /before/ Dale Houstman's adaptation of it. But you're pretty much
correct in statting that Dale's is a new version of half of AS's poem, no
argument there.
--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery & Brian Mallard (video):
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Karla
2009-06-04 00:36:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
Are you saying that Dale Houstman's poem is a new version of half of
Alacrity Stone's poem?
That's a good way to put it, really.
Okay, I put it the good way I wrote it. Really.
You made a slight mistake, which I corrected, since Alacrity Stone's poem
came /before/ Dale Houstman's adaptation of it. But you're pretty much
correct in statting that Dale's is a new version of half of AS's poem, no
argument there.
Your snipping of my lesson to you is proof in point: you don't want
to admit that someone can arrange words to mean something new and
fresh.

BTW, are you now accusing Dale of copyright infringement? You allege
that he's adapted Alacrity Stone's poem and created a new version.
Will Dockery
2009-06-04 09:16:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
You made a slight mistake, which I corrected, since Alacrity Stone's poem
came /before/ Dale Houstman's adaptation of it. But you're pretty much
correct in statting that Dale's is a new version of half of AS's poem, no
argument there.
Your snipping of my lesson
You might consider a lesson in Dennis M. Hammes' "Try to have your
writing make sense" class, since your jumbled sentences didn't really
get us anywhere, no.
Post by Karla
BTW, are you now accusing Dale of copyright infringement?
No, it has been established that his borrowing other people's poetry
is legal... you were the one who went over and over that, if my memory
serves me well?
Post by Karla
You allege
that he's adapted Alacrity Stone's poem and created a new version.
That seems to be what he did, in my opinion... there's nothing wrong
with Dale doing that, is there?

--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery & Brian Mallard (video):
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Karla
2009-06-04 18:59:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
You made a slight mistake, which I corrected, since Alacrity Stone's poem
came /before/ Dale Houstman's adaptation of it. But you're pretty much
correct in statting that Dale's is a new version of half of AS's poem, no
argument there.
Your snipping of my lesson
You might consider a lesson in Dennis M. Hammes' "Try to have your
writing make sense" class, since your jumbled sentences didn't really
get us anywhere, no.
You're the one with the reading comprehension problem. See below.
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
BTW, are you now accusing Dale of copyright infringement?
No, it has been established that his borrowing other people's poetry
is legal... you were the one who went over and over that, if my memory
serves me well?
Nope, you don't get it or maybe don't have the capability to
understand it. Which is it?
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
You allege
that he's adapted Alacrity Stone's poem and created a new version.
That seems to be what he did, in my opinion... there's nothing wrong
with Dale doing that, is there?
I disagree that he adapted or created a new version of Alacrity's
poem. Dale created a new poem. Thematically the two poems are vastly
different. We've been over this before - you didn't get it, did you?

If you're right, and Dale only adapted or created a new version,
Alacrity might have check out:

"§ 106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works. . . .
Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this
title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the
following: . . .

(2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work; . . .
"

"A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more preexisting
works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization,
fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art
reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a
work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of
editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other
modifications, which, as a whole, represent an original work of
authorship, is a “derivative work”."
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html

Again, I think Dale created a new, original work, not a derivative
work. You probably don't understand what you're saying here.

Karla
Will Dockery
2009-06-04 19:35:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karla
I disagree that he adapted or created a new version of Alacrity's
poem. Dale created a new poem. Thematically the two poems are vastly
different. We've been over this before -
Exactly what I had thought of writing, here... we've gone over all
this before. Dale's poem just would not exist, could not exist,
without Alacrity Stone's poem coming before it.

Dale might have written another poem, perhaps using another person's
poem to do that, but the content would be different, since the chances
of him finding the same keywords at the same time in another poem
would be slim, at the very best, and most likely impossible... unless
AS wrote his poem based on an even earlier poem!
Post by Karla
If you're right, and Dale only adapted or created a new version,
Alacrity Stone didn't care what Dale did, so none of this really
matters, anyhow!
Post by Karla
"§ 106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works.  . . .
Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this
title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the
following: . . .
(2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work; . . .
"
"A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more preexisting
works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization,
fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art
reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a
work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of
editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other
modifications, which, as a whole, represent an original work of
authorship, is a “derivative work”."http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html
Again, I think Dale created a new, original work, not a derivative
work.
Okay, I have no problem with you thinking that, but the point of this
thread was Dale accusing the other poets of theft, being thieves,
copping lines, and other colorful phrases,and I pointed out that he
seemed to be doing the same, and is even quoted as stating "It is okay
to steal poetry..."

That's what this thread is about, Dale asked if George Dance planned
to steal some poet's work, "as he had done before", and I reminded
Dale that he's proclaimed "It is okay to steal...", so why is he
worried if george does or doesn't steal?

And, on the subject, Rob Evans, without any evidence given, has
accused /me/ of "stealing" the poem below from "other people's
lyrics"... since you're so dead-on in defending people "unjustly"
accused of stealing, it is curious that you blubber on endlessly to
me, yet never seem to notice when others are spewing lies (as Dale did
repeatedly before I brought his borrowings to light) about similar
Post by Karla
Only to discover that ther'e nothing there other than tired phrases from
other peoples lyrics.
Ah, can you point those out from the example below? And if not, then
perhaps s.t.f.u. with your senile lying, Mushmouth?

Thanks in advance, since I know that this task will be impossible for
you:

"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach:


She Sleeps Tight

Sleeps so tight
she has a marksman's eye.
Maker's mark
tattoo firewater smile.
Leather shoes
but nowhere to go.

Dice and coins
scattered in the snow.
Dice and coins
scattered in the snow.

Won't be long,
until I see her face.
She's waiting
in an undisclosed place.
I've been conspired
banned from my muse.

This won't stick
poor boy's all confused.
This won't stick
poor boy's all confused.

In Salem town
she keeps her chin so high.
Darkened breeze
she smiles as I roll by.
Step inside
she looks for tables left.

Wink at time
nothing lasts except yourself.
Wink at time
nothing lasts except yourself.

Like a Steamboat
she plans to roll on down.
To the Gulf
out of this dirty town.
Copper mesh
kept stuffed in a jar.

Sharp cold hit
turning wine to water.
Sharp cold hit
turning wine to water.

We know him
eye deed by his ship.
In a trap
a kind of goosechase trip.
Whiskey fumes
and stale gunsmoke.

Sunk and drowned
with all her knives and jokes.
Sunk and drowned
with all her knives and jokes.

Sleeps so tight
she has a marksman's eye.
Maker's mark
tattoo firewater spine.
Leather shoes
but nowhere to go.

-Will Dockery (words)
Brian Mallard (music)
Karla
2009-06-04 19:41:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
I disagree that he adapted or created a new version of Alacrity's
poem. Dale created a new poem. Thematically the two poems are vastly
different. We've been over this before -
Exactly what I had thought of writing, here... we've gone over all
this before. Dale's poem just would not exist, could not exist,
without Alacrity Stone's poem coming before it.
Whoa, buster, what I wrote and you wrote right above here are two
different things. Unless you understand that, you can't pass go. The
rest of your comments below can't be addressed until you grasp that.

Karla
Post by Will Dockery
Dale might have written another poem, perhaps using another person's
poem to do that, but the content would be different, since the chances
of him finding the same keywords at the same time in another poem
would be slim, at the very best, and most likely impossible... unless
AS wrote his poem based on an even earlier poem!
Post by Karla
If you're right, and Dale only adapted or created a new version,
Alacrity Stone didn't care what Dale did, so none of this really
matters, anyhow!
Post by Karla
"§ 106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works.  . . .
Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this
title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the
following: . . .
(2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work; . . .
"
"A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more preexisting
works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization,
fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art
reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a
work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of
editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other
modifications, which, as a whole, represent an original work of
authorship, is a “derivative work”."http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html
Again, I think Dale created a new, original work, not a derivative
work.
Okay, I have no problem with you thinking that, but the point of this
thread was Dale accusing the other poets of theft, being thieves,
copping lines, and other colorful phrases,and I pointed out that he
seemed to be doing the same, and is even quoted as stating "It is okay
to steal poetry..."
That's what this thread is about, Dale asked if George Dance planned
to steal some poet's work, "as he had done before", and I reminded
Dale that he's proclaimed "It is okay to steal...", so why is he
worried if george does or doesn't steal?
And, on the subject, Rob Evans, without any evidence given, has
accused /me/ of "stealing" the poem below from "other people's
lyrics"... since you're so dead-on in defending people "unjustly"
accused of stealing, it is curious that you blubber on endlessly to
me, yet never seem to notice when others are spewing lies (as Dale did
repeatedly before I brought his borrowings to light) about similar
Post by Karla
Only to discover that ther'e nothing there other than tired phrases from
other peoples lyrics.
Ah, can you point those out from the example below? And if not, then
perhaps s.t.f.u. with your senile lying, Mushmouth?
Thanks in advance, since I know that this task will be impossible for
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George http://youtu.be/3D9uGY157cpiU
She Sleeps Tight
Sleeps so tight
she has a marksman's eye.
Maker's mark
tattoo firewater smile.
Leather shoes
but nowhere to go.
Dice and coins
scattered in the snow.
Dice and coins
scattered in the snow.
Won't be long,
until I see her face.
She's waiting
in an undisclosed place.
I've been conspired
banned from my muse.
This won't stick
poor boy's all confused.
This won't stick
poor boy's all confused.
In Salem town
she keeps her chin so high.
Darkened breeze
she smiles as I roll by.
Step inside
she looks for tables left.
Wink at time
nothing lasts except yourself.
Wink at time
nothing lasts except yourself.
Like a Steamboat
she plans to roll on down.
To the Gulf
out of this dirty town.
Copper mesh
kept stuffed in a jar.
Sharp cold hit
turning wine to water.
Sharp cold hit
turning wine to water.
We know him
eye deed by his ship.
In a trap
a kind of goosechase trip.
Whiskey fumes
and stale gunsmoke.
Sunk and drowned
with all her knives and jokes.
Sunk and drowned
with all her knives and jokes.
Sleeps so tight
she has a marksman's eye.
Maker's mark
tattoo firewater spine.
Leather shoes
but nowhere to go.
-Will Dockery (words)
Brian Mallard (music)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Will Dockery
2009-06-04 19:57:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
I disagree that he adapted or created a new version of Alacrity's
poem. Dale created a new poem. Thematically the two poems are vastly
different. We've been over this before -
Exactly what I had thought of writing, here... we've gone over all
this before. Dale's poem just would not exist, could not exist,
without Alacrity Stone's poem coming before it.
Whoa, buster,
Buster! That's the most charming thing I've read all day, and I've
read plenty...

what I wrote and you wrote right above here are two
Post by Karla
different things. Unless you understand that,
Well, I can see that they are two different things.

Do you really, really, think that Dale's poem would exist today if it
wasn't for Alacrity posting his poem here first?

This is really such a simple thing that I find it impossible to
believe you don't see that one point.

you can't pass go. The
Post by Karla
rest of your comments below can't be addressed until you grasp that.
Karla> Dale might have written another poem, perhaps using another person's
Post by Will Dockery
poem to do that, but the content would be different, since the chances
of him finding the same keywords at the same time in another poem
would be slim, at the very best, and most likely impossible... unless
AS wrote his poem based on an even earlier poem!
Post by Karla
If you're right, and Dale only adapted or created a new version,
Alacrity Stone didn't care what Dale did, so none of this really
matters, anyhow!
Post by Karla
"§ 106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works.  . . .
Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this
title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the
following: . . .
(2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work; . . .
"
"A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more preexisting
works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization,
fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art
reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a
work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of
editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other
modifications, which, as a whole, represent an original work of
authorship, is a “derivative work”."http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html
Again, I think Dale created a new, original work, not a derivative
work.
Okay, I have no problem with you thinking that, but the point of this
thread was Dale accusing the other poets of theft, being thieves,
copping lines, and other colorful phrases,and I pointed out that he
seemed to be doing the same, and is even quoted as stating "It is okay
to steal poetry..."
That's what this thread is about, Dale asked if George Dance planned
to steal some poet's work, "as he had done before", and I reminded
Dale that he's proclaimed "It is okay to steal...", so why is he
worried if george does or doesn't steal?
And, on the subject, Rob Evans, without any evidence given, has
accused /me/ of "stealing" the poem below from "other people's
lyrics"... since you're so dead-on in defending people "unjustly"
accused of stealing, it is curious that you blubber on endlessly to
me, yet never seem to notice when others are spewing lies (as Dale did
repeatedly before I brought his borrowings to light) about similar
Post by Karla
Only to discover that ther'e nothing there other than tired phrases from
other peoples lyrics.
Ah, can you point those out from the example below? And if not, then
perhaps s.t.f.u. with your senile lying, Mushmouth?
Thanks in advance, since I know that this task will be impossible for
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George http://youtu.be/3D9uGY157cpiU
She Sleeps Tight
Sleeps so tight
she has a marksman's eye.
Maker's mark
tattoo firewater smile.
Leather shoes
but nowhere to go.
Dice and coins
scattered in the snow.
Dice and coins
scattered in the snow.
Won't be long,
until I see her face.
She's waiting
in an undisclosed place.
I've been conspired
banned from my muse.
This won't stick
poor boy's all confused.
This won't stick
poor boy's all confused.
In Salem town
she keeps her chin so high.
Darkened breeze
she smiles as I roll by.
Step inside
she looks for tables left.
Wink at time
nothing lasts except yourself.
Wink at time
nothing lasts except yourself.
Like a Steamboat
she plans to roll on down.
To the Gulf
out of this dirty town.
Copper mesh
kept stuffed in a jar.
Sharp cold hit
turning wine to water.
Sharp cold hit
turning wine to water.
We know him
eye deed by his ship.
In a trap
a kind of goosechase trip.
Whiskey fumes
and stale gunsmoke.
Sunk and drowned
with all her knives and jokes.
Sunk and drowned
with all her knives and jokes.
Sleeps so tight
she has a marksman's eye.
Maker's mark
tattoo firewater spine.
Leather shoes
but nowhere to go.
-Will Dockery (words)
Brian Mallard (music)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Karla
2009-06-04 00:36:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
Are you saying that Dale Houstman's poem is a new version of half of
Alacrity Stone's poem?
That's a good way to put it, really.
Okay, I put it the good way I wrote it. Really.
You made a slight mistake, which I corrected, since Alacrity Stone's poem
came /before/ Dale Houstman's adaptation of it. But you're pretty much
correct in statting that Dale's is a new version of half of AS's poem, no
argument there.
Your snipping of my lesson to you is proof in point: you don't want
to admit that someone can arrange words to mean something new and
fresh.

BTW, are you now accusing Dale of copyright infringement? You allege
that he's adapted Alacrity Stone's poem and created a new version.
Karla
2009-06-04 00:02:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
I see - so Alacrity Stone generated the words
Obviously, without Alacrity Stone's poem, there would have been no
Dale Houstman poem, if that's what you're asking.
Then you agree that the poem was obviously asking Alacrity Stone that
without Dale Houstman there would have been no poem?
The poem by Alacrity Stone existed before Dale generated his version
from it. Counting word-for-word, it is shown that half the words in
the poem generated by Dale Houstman can be spotted in the original
poem by Alacrity Stone
Are you disagreeing that the Alacrity Stone version word-for-word is shown
And half the poem matched the later Dale Houstman version, yes.
Are you saying that Dale Houstman's poem is a new version of half of
Alacrity Stone's later poem?

Karla
Will Dockery
2009-06-03 23:58:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
I see - so Alacrity Stone generated the words
Obviously, without Alacrity Stone's poem, there would have been no
Dale Houstman poem, if that's what you're asking.
Then you agree that the poem was obviously asking Alacrity Stone that
without Dale Houstman there would have been no poem?
The poem by Alacrity Stone existed before Dale generated his version
from it. Counting word-for-word, it is shown that half the words in
the poem generated by Dale Houstman can be spotted in the original
poem by Alacrity Stone
Are you disagreeing that the Alacrity Stone version word-for-word is shown
And half the poem matched the later Dale Houstman version, yes.

--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery & Brian Mallard (video):
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Will Dockery
2009-06-03 23:35:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
I see - so Alacrity Stone generated the words
Obviously, without Alacrity Stone's poem, there would have been no
Dale Houstman poem, if that's what you're asking.
Then you agree that the poem was obviously asking Alacrity Stone that
without Dale Houstman there would have been no poem?
The poem by Alacrity Stone existed before Dale generated his version
from it. Counting word-for-word, it is shown that half the words in
the poem generated by Dale Houstman can be spotted in the original
poem by Alacrity Stone

--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery & Brian Mallard (video):
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Karla
2009-06-03 23:27:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
Since Dale used half of another poet's poem to write his poem, that's been established.
Counting word-for-word, Dale did that. Half the words in the poem can
be spotted in the original poem by Alacrity Stone, and they were laid
side-by-side to show this.
Which has been established as "okay", as the title of this thread
makes obvious.
<snip>
Since I am not claiming Dale Houstman commited plagiarism, your
response is misdirected.
So what you're saying is counting half the words in the original
Counting word-for-word, it is shown that half the words in the poem
generated by Dale Houstman can be spotted in the original poem by
Alacrity Stone
I see - so Alacrity Stone generated the words
Obviously, without Alacrity Stone's poem, there would have been no
Dale Houstman poem, if that's what you're asking.
Then you agree that the poem was obviously asking Alacrity Stone that
without Dale Houstman there would have been no poem?
Will Dockery
2009-06-03 23:19:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karla
Post by Will Dockery
Since Dale used half of another poet's poem to write his poem, that's been established.
Counting word-for-word, Dale did that. Half the words in the poem can
be spotted in the original poem by Alacrity Stone, and they were laid
side-by-side to show this.
Which has been established as "okay", as the title of this thread
makes obvious.
<snip>
Since I am not claiming Dale Houstman commited plagiarism, your
response is misdirected.
So what you're saying is counting half the words in the original
Counting word-for-word, it is shown that half the words in the poem
generated by Dale Houstman can be spotted in the original poem by
Alacrity Stone
I see - so Alacrity Stone generated the words
Obviously, without Alacrity Stone's poem, there would have been no
Dale Houstman poem, if that's what you're asking.

--
"Preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, prevents us
from living freely and nobly." -H.D. Thoreau (via Mama Fal)

"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery & Brian Mallard (video):
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Karla
2009-06-03 23:10:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Since Dale used half of another poet's poem to write his poem,
Counting word-for-word, Dale did that. Half the words in the poem can
be spotted in the original poem by Alacrity Stone, and they were laid
side-by-side to show this.
Which has been established as "okay", as the title of this thread
makes obvious.
<snip>
Since I am not claiming Dale Houstman commited plagiarism, your
response is misdirected.
So what you're saying is counting half the words in the original
Counting word-for-word, it is shown that half the words in the poem
generated by Dale Houstman can be spotted in the original poem by
Alacrity Stone
I see - so Alacrity Stone generated the words shown in the spotted
half that became an original poem by Dale Houstman?

Karla
Will Dockery
2009-06-03 23:43:05 UTC
Permalink
Since Dale used half of another poet's poem to write his poem,
Since Dale didn't do that
Counting word-for-word, Dale did that. half the words in the poem can
be spotted in the original poem by Alacrity Stone, and they were laid
side-by-side to show this.
They were not "laid side-by-side".
Yes they were, at least twice. Perhaps you should go back and read the
thread before making your false statements, PJR.
Which has been established as "okay", as the title of this thread
makes obvious.
Here's where I blow
Your sexual preferences are of no interest to me.
"A good poet will usually borrow from authors remote in time, or alien
in language, or diverse in interest." - T S Eliot
"Good poets borrow, great poets steal." - attributed to T S Eliot
George Dance beat you to those quotes, and even did you one better...
he gave the /complete/ quote and source.
In fact, of course, even if Dale had copied 99.9% of Rick's poem,
there would still have been no grounds for your claim of plagiarism
<snip>
Since I am not claiming Dale Houstman commited plagiarism, your
response is misdirected.
So what *did* Dale do that was so wrong that you're whining endlessly
about it?
Go back to the start of the thread, where Dale continues to accuse
others of "stealing", being "thieves" and "copping lines". I point out
that not only does he "borrow" poetry to generate his own, but makes
the statement that "it is okay to steal poetry". So what is /he/
whining about?

--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery & Brian Mallard (video):
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Peter J Ross
2009-06-04 00:12:22 UTC
Permalink
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:43:05 -0700 (PDT),
whining
by Will Dockery
If anybody whose opinion I respect tells me that your inept attempts
to wriggle out of being caught lying and defaming deserve further
responses from me, I'll post further responses.

But at present, any response other than "Fuck off, narcissistic liar"
seems likely to be a waste of my time.
--
PJR :-)

<http://pjr.lasnobberia.net/verse/>
Will Dockery
2009-06-04 00:24:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter J Ross
If anybody whose opinion
<snip>

Thanks for giving your opinion, and have a good day, PJR!
--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery & Brian Mallard (video):
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Post by Peter J Ross
Since Dale used half of another poet's poem to write his poem,
Since Dale didn't do that
Counting word-for-word, Dale did that. half the words in the poem can
be spotted in the original poem by Alacrity Stone, and they were laid
side-by-side to show this.
They were not "laid side-by-side".
Yes they were, at least twice. Perhaps you should go back and read the
thread before making your false statements, PJR.
Post by Peter J Ross
Which has been established as "okay", as the title of this thread
makes obvious.
Here's where I blow
Your sexual preferences are of no interest to me.
Post by Peter J Ross
"A good poet will usually borrow from authors remote in time, or alien
in language, or diverse in interest." - T S Eliot
"Good poets borrow, great poets steal." - attributed to T S Eliot
George Dance beat you to those quotes, and even did you one better...
he gave the /complete/ quote and source.
Post by Peter J Ross
In fact, of course, even if Dale had copied 99.9% of Rick's poem,
there would still have been no grounds for your claim of plagiarism
<snip>
Since I am not claiming Dale Houstman commited plagiarism, your
response is misdirected.
So what *did* Dale do that was so wrong that you're whining endlessly
about it?
Go back to the start of the thread, where Dale continues to accuse
others of "stealing", being "thieves" and "copping lines". I point out
that not only does he "borrow" poetry to generate his own, but makes
the statement that "it is okay to steal poetry". So what is /he/
whining about?
Peter J Ross
2009-06-04 00:12:22 UTC
Permalink
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:43:05 -0700 (PDT),
whining
by Will Dockery
If anybody whose opinion I respect tells me that your inept attempts
to wriggle out of being caught lying and defaming deserve further
responses from me, I'll post further responses.

But at present, any response other than "Fuck off, narcissistic liar"
seems likely to be a waste of my time.
--
PJR :-)

<http://pjr.lasnobberia.net/verse/>
Will Dockery
2009-06-07 22:08:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
I've been reading the Other Voices International cyber-anthology,
which archives over 600 poets from around the world. Actually, in one
month I've managed to read only the 15 poets archived in Vol. 40.
I've definitely found a preference in that volume: Roger Sedarat and
his 6-poem selection, "The Prophet."
Letters to the Islamic Republic (Ohio UP), which won the Hollis
Summers Prize. His poems and translations have appeared in such
journals as New England Review, Poet Lore, and Iranian.com. A
recipient of scholarships to the Bread Loaf Writers' Conference and a
St. Botolph poetry grant, he teaches poetry and translation in the MFA
program at Queens College, City University of New York."
As a sample of Sedarat's style, here's a selection from his poem,
The Prophet as Analysand
[...]
And the therapist said, “Think of it like
the rough draft of a poem, Haji,
just let your words escape without editing.
And Haji the poet cum prophet replied,
“Huffy Haji hid the day…”
“That’s John Berryman, Haji!” exclaimed the therapist.
“You're plagiarizing! Why do you feel the need to copy
when invited to speak for yourself?”
“Because,” replied Haji, “you’re only as sick
 as your secrets.”
“Berrryman said that too!” Exclaimed the therapist.
[...]
plus a couple of stanzas from his ghazal,
Gazelle in a Ghazal
[...]
My Father cried his life was all a lie,
Perfect material for the ghazal.
As the lion will stalk its prey, the poet
Will seek to work his name in the ghazal.
[...]
Resisting the couplet’s will to define
Both constructs and deconstructs the ghazal.
[...]
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html

Ah, since a couple of people are interested in poetry here again,
suddenly, perhaps it may be a good idea to get this thread back to the
topic intended for it, the one that was intentionally derailed by
false allegations and the later setting the record straight period.

--
Twilight Girl, written by Will Dockery & Henry Conley, from the CD
Shadowville Speedway. © 2009
Vocals: Will Dockery, Guitar: Henry Conley, Bass: Doug Conley, Flute:
Gene Woolfolk, Jr. Drums: John Phillips.
http://youtu.be/BYETTK16jQI
George Dance
2009-06-08 00:47:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by George Dance
I've been reading the Other Voices International cyber-anthology,
which archives over 600 poets from around the world. Actually, in one
month I've managed to read only the 15 poets archived in Vol. 40.
I've definitely found a preference in that volume: Roger Sedarat and
his 6-poem selection, "The Prophet."
Letters to the Islamic Republic (Ohio UP), which won the Hollis
Summers Prize. His poems and translations have appeared in such
journals as New England Review, Poet Lore, and Iranian.com. A
recipient of scholarships to the Bread Loaf Writers' Conference and a
St. Botolph poetry grant, he teaches poetry and translation in the MFA
program at Queens College, City University of New York."
As a sample of Sedarat's style, here's a selection from his poem,
The Prophet as Analysand
[...]
And the therapist said, “Think of it like
the rough draft of a poem, Haji,
just let your words escape without editing.
And Haji the poet cum prophet replied,
“Huffy Haji hid the day…”
“That’s John Berryman, Haji!” exclaimed the therapist.
“You're plagiarizing! Why do you feel the need to copy
when invited to speak for yourself?”
“Because,” replied Haji, “you’re only as sick
 as your secrets.”
“Berrryman said that too!” Exclaimed the therapist.
[...]
plus a couple of stanzas from his ghazal,
Gazelle in a Ghazal
[...]
My Father cried his life was all a lie,
Perfect material for the ghazal.
As the lion will stalk its prey, the poet
Will seek to work his name in the ghazal.
[...]
Resisting the couplet’s will to define
Both constructs and deconstructs the ghazal.
[...]
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html
Ah, since a couple of people are interested in poetry here again,
suddenly, perhaps it may be a good idea to get this thread back to the
topic intended for it, the one that was intentionally derailed by
false allegations and the later setting the record straight period.
Thanks for reposting the link.

I might as well post the link to the anthology itself. There's more
tnan 600 poets represented here, something for every taste.

http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/
Post by George Dance
--
Twilight Girl, written by Will Dockery & Henry Conley, from the CD
Shadowville Speedway. © 2009
Gene Woolfolk, Jr. Drums: John http://youtu.be/BYETTK16jQI
Will Dockery
2009-06-08 20:30:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by George Dance
Post by George Dance
I've been reading the Other Voices International cyber-anthology,
which archives over 600 poets from around the world. Actually, in one
month I've managed to read only the 15 poets archived in Vol. 40.
I've definitely found a preference in that volume: Roger Sedarat and
his 6-poem selection, "The Prophet."
Letters to the Islamic Republic (Ohio UP), which won the Hollis
Summers Prize. His poems and translations have appeared in such
journals as New England Review, Poet Lore, and Iranian.com. A
recipient of scholarships to the Bread Loaf Writers' Conference and a
St. Botolph poetry grant, he teaches poetry and translation in the MFA
program at Queens College, City University of New York."
As a sample of Sedarat's style, here's a selection from his poem,
The Prophet as Analysand
[...]
And the therapist said, “Think of it like
the rough draft of a poem, Haji,
just let your words escape without editing.
And Haji the poet cum prophet replied,
“Huffy Haji hid the day…”
“That’s John Berryman, Haji!” exclaimed the therapist.
“You're plagiarizing! Why do you feel the need to copy
when invited to speak for yourself?”
“Because,” replied Haji, “you’re only as sick
 as your secrets.”
“Berrryman said that too!” Exclaimed the therapist.
[...]
plus a couple of stanzas from his ghazal,
Gazelle in a Ghazal
[...]
My Father cried his life was all a lie,
Perfect material for the ghazal.
As the lion will stalk its prey, the poet
Will seek to work his name in the ghazal.
[...]
Resisting the couplet’s will to define
Both constructs and deconstructs the ghazal.
[...]
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html
Ah, since a couple of people are interested in poetry here again,
suddenly, perhaps it may be a good idea to get this thread back to the
topic intended for it, the one that was intentionally derailed by
false allegations and the later setting the record straight period.
Thanks for reposting the link.
I might as well post the link to the anthology itself. There's more
tnan 600 poets represented here, something for every taste.
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/
Hey, that's a pretty fantastic collection. A shame to see the so-
called poets here ignore it as they do, but that's their loss.

Here's the list... who knows, some of these poets might Google their
name, come here to have a look, and join us. Now that would be a
great, since we obviously have a severe shortage of worthwhile
participants here:

Ben Smith ‡ Charles Adés Fishman ‡ Christine De Luca ‡ Eqrem Basha ‡
George Dance ‡ George McWhirter ‡ Judy Halebsky ‡ Kiriu Minashita ‡
Linda Leedy Schneider ‡ Olimbi Velaj ‡ Richard Shindell ‡ Walid Saba ‡
Ziba Shirazi

Ahcene Mariche ‡ Chuck Brodsky ‡ Dee "Buckshot Dot" Strickland Johnson
‡ Emily K. Bright ‡ Ken McCullough ‡ Leonard J. Cirino ‡ Linda Albert
‡ Linh Dinh ‡ Niels Hav ‡ Ntsiki Mazwai ‡ Roger Sedarat ‡ Ryoko
Sekiguchi ‡ Takako Arai ‡ Tomaž Šalamun ‡ Valery Oisteanu

Bob Perelman ‡ Cath Koa Dunsford ‡ Chika Sagawa ‡ Dariusz Pacak ‡
Ibrahim Nasrallah ‡ John Amen ‡ Joseph Bruchac ‡ Luis Benítez ‡
Melissa Osborne ‡ Ram Krishna Singh ‡ Richard L. Provencher ‡ Sawako
Nakayasu ‡ Shameela Abraham ‡ Takashi Hiraide ‡ Tammy F. Trendle

Ario Elami ‡ Bruce Williams ‡ David Wilcox ‡ Denise Duhamel ‡ Eduards
Aivars ‡ Inara Cedrins ‡ Karen Douglass ‡ Margaret Bashaar ‡ Natasha
Kochicheril Moni ‡ Pam Brown ‡ Paul Bura ‡ Paul Hostovsky ‡ Rachel
Blau DuPlessis ‡ Rick Marlatt ‡ WisŁawa Szymborska

Cecilia Woloch ‡ Dan Waber ‡ Dorian Haarhoff ‡ Dr. Robyn Rowland AO ‡
Flora Brovina ‡ Jack DeWitt ‡ John Brandi ‡ Mammad Araz ‡ Maria Deyana
‡ Marianna Hofer ‡ Marzanna Bogumiła Kielar ‡ Nizar Kabbani ‡
Prabhatkiran Bose ‡ Renée Gregorio ‡ Steve Regan

Aram Saroyan ‡ Beau Hamel ‡ Diana Der-Hovanessian ‡Gerald McCarthy
‡Gregory Djanikian ‡ Halina Poświatowska ‡ Jean Narciso Bispo Moura ‡
Marilyn Rosenthal Rosenberg ‡ Patrice O’Neill & Maria Camillo ‡ Ricky
Rapoport Friesem ‡ Sarah Luczaj ‡ Sepideh Banihashemi ‡ Setareh Sabety
‡ Sharmagne Leland-St. John ‡ Yuri Andrukhovych

alcoholic poet ‡ Alexis N. Carra ‡ Andrew H. Oerke ‡ Adrian Grima ‡
Antoine Cassar ‡ George Murray ‡ John Hegley ‡ Lekshmy Rajeev ‡ Nancy
Johnson-Elami ‡ Nancy Shiffrin ‡ Negar Assari-Samimi ‡ Richard Jeffrey
Newman ‡ Sophie Hannah ‡ Stefan Hertmans ‡ Vivian Teter

Alan Gay ‡ Alev Adil ‡ Bernardo Atxaga ‡ Clare Azzopardi ‡ Fatima
Naoot ‡ Fred D'Aguiar ‡ George Szirtes ‡ Mahadai Das ‡ Meena Kandasamy
‡ Naim Araidi ‡ Pascale Petit ‡ Patrice Vecchione ‡ Robert Minhinnick
‡ Sandra Meek ‡ William Wall

Abbas Yamini Sharif ‡ Andy Brown ‡ Angela Gegg ‡ Bejan Baran ‡ Charles
Bernstein ‡ Chris Mansell ‡ Come Stand By My Window (500th Other
Voices' Entry) ‡ Jan Lauwereyns ‡ Kate Buckley ‡ Martha Deed ‡ Roya
Hakakian ‡ Samantha Wynne-Rhydderch ‡ Steven Robert Heine ‡ Tantra
Bensko ‡ Uddipana Goswami

Amy King ‡ Annie Finch ‡ Azarin Sadegh ‡ Bev Braune ‡ Brandy Stoner ‡
Erling Friis-Baastad ‡ George Mackay Brown ‡ James Galvin ‡ Jen
Hadfield ‡ Leslie Kreiner Wilson ‡ Maria Teresa Ogliastri ‡ May Ng ‡
rob mclennan ‡ Sina Moayedi ‡ Stephanie Bolster

Arezou Mokhtarian ‡ Cristina Castello ‡ Diane Ackerman ‡ Douglas
Pinson ‡ Elena Karina Byrne ‡ Fiona Sampson ‡ Hisashi Nakamura ‡
Jeffrey Ethan Lee ‡ John Row ‡ Laala Kashef Alghata ‡ Leanne Averbach
‡ Margaret Saine ‡ Rasma Haidri ‡ Ray McNiece ‡ Sophie Moleta

Amir Or ‡ Carolyn Kreiter-Foronda ‡ Coleman Barks ‡ Emanuel Xavier ‡
Felix Cheong ‡ Janice Ian ‡ Joy Harjo ‡ Luisa Igloria ‡ Mario Susko ‡
Myrna Amelia Mesa ‡ Natalie Diaz ‡ Pattiann Rogers ‡ Prince Mensah ‡
Stefi Weisburd ‡ Yevgeny Yevtushenko

Ana Elsner ‡ Billy Collins ‡ Cati Porter ‡ Desi Di Nardo ‡ Dorianne
Laux ‡ Edessa Ramos ‡ Emma Neale ‡ Eric Nelson ‡ Levi J Attias ‡ Mary
Guckian ‡ Michael Lee Johnson ‡ Mukesh Williams ‡ PB Rippey ‡
Rethabile Masilo ‡ Tom Keene

Afshin Babazadeh ‡ Agron Tufa ‡ Clara Hsu ‡ Dan McManus ‡ Jens Fink-
Jensen ‡ Kemp ‡ Luljeta Lleshanaku ‡ Manouchehr Saadat Noury ‡ Mahnaz
Badihian ‡ Mirko Gashi ‡ Nafiss Nia ‡ Robab Moheb ‡ Sam Vaseghi ‡
Samsum Kashfi ‡ Shirin Razavian

Adeena Karasick ‡ David Lunde ‡ Diana Woodcock ‡ Hadi Khojinian ‡
Jennifer Maldonado ‡ Jeton Kelmendi ‡ Kellye Betancourt ‡ Marc Olmsted
‡ Natasha Turner ‡ Paige O'Neill ‡ Rira Abbasi ‡ Terry Henderson ‡
Ursula K. Le Guin ‡ Yun Wang ‡ Zinat al Sadat Pirzadeh

Aju Mukhopadhyay ‡ Andrew David King ‡ Babak Seradjeh ‡ Candy Tothill
‡ Collin Kelley ‡ Deanna Shapiro ‡ Jerah Chadwick ‡ Lucinda Clark ‡
mshairi ‡ Rahim Asgard ‡ Rich Ferguson ‡ Robert Rothstein ‡ Samira
Mohyeddin ‡ Silvia Favaretto ‡ Trenton Davis

ASCAFS ‡ Benjamin Estrada ‡ Brandon Cesmat ‡ B.M. Dzukogi ‡ Carol
Desjarlais ‡ Claire Beynon ‡ Cyril Wong ‡ Hassan Najmi ‡ Lucy Bucknall
‡ Matubuna Tahun ‡ Nicholas Y.B. Wong ‡ R. Purushothama Rao ‡ Tobi
Cogswell ‡ Uche Peter Umez ‡ V.M. Airu

Abdulwahab Mihoub ‡ Achy Obejas ‡ Jack Fulbeck ‡ Kamar Hamza ‡ Ken
Waldman‡ Mario Bellizzi ‡ Maurice Oliver ‡ Michael R. Burch ‡ Mimoza
Ahmeti ‡ Rita Odeh ‡ Rita Petro ‡ Ruth Daigon ‡ Tammy Ho Lai-ming ‡
Touria Majdouline ‡ Yashar Ahad Saremi

Ali Alizadeh ‡ Ali Zarrin ‡ Cynthia Bryant ‡ Elham Gheytanchi ‡
Farinaz Aryanfar ‡ Gary Freedman ‡ Luis Alberto Ambroggio ‡ M. Reza
Eslami ‡ Mahboudeh Shad ‡ Matthew Barraza ‡ Phillip Zhuwao ‡ Ron
Cervero ‡ Tina Ehrami ‡ Tracee Coleman ‡ Zohreh Khazai Ghahremani

Alana Tanksley ‡ Arlene Ang ‡ Christine Hume ‡ Daniel Y. Harris ‡
Daniele Pantano ‡ D.H. Melhem ‡ Dimitris Lyacos ‡ Ellis Paul ‡ Hadi
Khorsandi ‡ Mahasti Shahrokhi ‡ Sepideh Jodeyri ‡ Steven Brewer ‡
Vernon Montoya ‡ Virgilio Rivas ‡ Yahia Lababidi

Andy N ‡ Eila Mahima Jaipaul ‡ Joel B. Peckham, Jr. ‡ Katayoon
Zandvakili ‡ Lindita Arapi ‡ Mana Aghaee ‡ Mandana Zandian ‡ Mimi
Khalvati ‡ Naanaam ‡ Sabri Hamiti ‡ Sheida Mohamadi ‡ Shin Kyong-rim ‡
Sholeh Wolpé ‡ silent lotus ‡ Young-Moo Kim

Alison Wong ‡ Andrew Demčak ‡ Bryan Murphy ‡ Chris O’Carroll ‡ Gabriel
Impaglione ‡ Gian Paolo Guerini ‡ Giovanna Mulas ‡ Hristo Mednikarov ‡
Kevin Patrick Sullivan ‡ Linzy Forbes ‡ Michael E. Stone ‡ Nikahang
Kowsar ‡ Paul Decelles ‡ Riina Katajavuori ‡ Sharon Esther Lampert

Attila the Stockbroker ‡ Dima Hilal ‡ Dimitris P. Kraniotis ‡ Fide
Erken ‡ J. Marcus Weekley ‡ Jerry Beale ‡ Jonka Hristova ‡ Kostas
Hrisos ‡ Laurence Overmire ‡ Morgaine ‡ Naia ‡ Uldis Bērziņš ‡ Ulrike
Gerbig ‡ Üzeyir Çayci ‡ Wanda D. Campbell

Ashraf Osman ‡ Daniel Abdal-Hayy Moore ‡ Dr. Amitabh Mitra ‡ Duane
Locke ‡ Jeffrey Spahr-Summers ‡ Jose Antonio Cangco ‡ Kyoko Uchida ‡
Maria Haeri ‡ Monica E. Smith ‡ Nora Nadjarian ‡ Prince Odimegwu
Onwumere ‡ Pamela K. Taylor ‡ Sally Ball ‡ Sherry Chandler ‡ Yakov
Azriel

Abdullah Konushevci ‡ Basri Çapriqi ‡ Edi Shukriu ‡ Flutura Açka ‡
Gretti Izak ‡ Ivón Gordon Vailakis ‡ J.C. Todd ‡ John Pule ‡ Leila
Montour ‡ Lisa Suhair Majaj ‡ Nan Byrne ‡ Pouran Farokhzad ‡ Roger
Aplon ‡ Vorea Ujko ‡ Wyn Cooper

Ala Riani ‡ Arif Ay ‡ Chika Unigwe ‡ Ellen Bass ‡ Etel Adnan ‡ Gerald
England ‡ Jirí Cêch ‡ Kristina Marie Darling ‡ Laurynas Katkus ‡ Max
Wolf Valerio ‡ Mevlut Ceylan ‡ Patrick B. Osada ‡ Phil Kawana ‡ Simon
Harrison ‡ Terry Jacobus

Aashish Ameya ‡ Alan Jefferies ‡ Alireza Behnam ‡ an'ya ‡ Eddie Tay ‡
E. Ethelbert Miller ‡ Heng Siok Tian ‡ Iain Britton ‡ Jan Fortune-Wood
‡ Kerry Shawn Keys ‡ liquid mouse‡ M Alam Azaad ‡ Marina Taitt ‡
Noriko Mizusaki ‡ Rukmini Bhaya Nair

Alamgir Hashmi ‡ Alice Lenkiewicz ‡ Cahit Zarifoglu ‡ Christopher
Kelen ‡ Kelly Young ‡ Kim Downs ‡ Liz Hall-Downs ‡ Michael Paul
Ladanyi ‡ Nnorom Azuonye ‡ Raul Maldonado ‡ Sharon Rothenfluch Cooper
‡ Uche Nduka ‡ Unoma N. Azuah ‡ Usha Kishore ‡ Vejea Jennings

Abdel Wright ‡ Changming Yuan ‡ Christopher Douglas Hunter ‡ Dr.
Ernesto Kahan ‡ Elizabeth Kate Switaj ‡ John Tiong Chunghoo ‡ José
Ferreira ‡ K.M. Dersley ‡ Liesl Jobson ‡ Marie Lecrivain ‡ Nimah
Nawwab ‡ Paul Sutherland ‡ Tolu Ogunlesi ‡ Ursula T. Gibson ‡ Wolf
Larsen

Andro Hakim ‡ Bam Dev Sharma ‡ Eric Ashford ‡ Jessica Moyer ‡ kari
edwards ‡ Kim Nam-jo ‡ KRZMa ‡ Les Wicks ‡ Margot Van Sluytman ‡
Mikaylah Simone ‡ misty santana ‡ Melanie Simms ‡ Tony R. Rodriguez ‡
Zen Oleary

An Do-hyon ‡ Ananya S. Guha ‡ Andrew Fusek Peters ‡ Azza El Wakeel ‡
Erin Monahan ‡ Elizabeth Smither ‡ Joop Bersee ‡ Ku Sang ‡ Midang (So
Chong-ju) ‡ Mzwandile Matiwana ‡ Nguyen Duc Batngan ‡ Rati Saxena ‡
Scott Wiggerman ‡ Tenzin Tsundue ‡ Thomas Hubbard

2ban ‡ Delfina Acosta ‡ Gabriel Gudding ‡ Katerina Rudcenková ‡ Ko Un
‡ Kobus Moolman ‡ Komninos Zervos ‡ Mammad Aidani ‡ Marty Matz ‡ Mehdi
Navid ‡ Moshe Benarroch ‡ Pat Boran ‡ Pittershawn Palmer ‡ Ricardo
Daniel Piña ‡ Teodoro Rubén Frejtman

Andrew Proudfoot ‡ Bill Taylor ‡ Elena Cohen Imach ‡ Francisco Azuela
‡ Helen Bar-Lev ‡ Humberto Garza ‡ Janna Eliot (Raqi Smith) ‡
Jeannette L. Clariond ‡ Johnmichael Simon ‡ Julio César Aguilar ‡
Ketaki Kushari Dyson ‡ Mario Meléndez ‡ Nino Soria de Veyra ‡ Sam
Piperato ‡ Zdravka Vladova-Momcheva

Damian McGregor ‡ Desmond Bailey ‡ Esiaba Irobi ‡ George Camilleri ‡
Harry Zevenbergen ‡ -jm ‡ Kianoosh Ramezani ‡ Luis J. Rodriquez ‡
Mariella Cassar ‡ Mong-Lan ‡ Robert Thomas ‡ Ron Haun ‡ Shane Allison
‡ Vicente Soria de Veyra ‡ Vihang Naik

441 Grammar School, St. Petersburg, Russia ‡ Carlos Felipe Hurtado ‡
Carolyn Dunn ‡ Cyrill Duneau ‡ Feven Afewerki ‡ Hooman Azizi ‡ Idris
Caffrey ‡ Justin Barrett ‡ Kojo Baffoe ‡ Larry Jaffe ‡ Lyn Lifshin ‡
Mike Austin ‡ Mike Scott ‡ Rochelle Ratner ‡ Shimanta Bhattacharyya

Babak Ghafari ‡ Batoul Nayer ‡ Berit Lundh ‡ David Owen ‡ Haale Gafori
‡ Kimberly Blaeser ‡ Lucia M. Ray ‡ Luis A. Lopez ‡ Maliha Hashmi ‡
Mattie Stepanek ‡ Michael José Morales Arriola ‡ Olutayo Osunsan ‡ Sam
King ‡ Taraneh Javanbakht ‡ V. Blanchard Singingeagle

1 Giant Leap ‡ Amegah Raymond ‡ Cher L ‡ Jody Kuchar ‡ Majid Mohiuddin
‡ Melissa Andrews ‡ Naveen Chandra ‡ Partow Nooriala ‡ Peyman
Vahabzadeh ‡ Pushpa Ratna Tuladhar ‡ Regine Heberlein ‡ Rodney Raphael
Yee ‡ Sohrab Rahimi ‡ Susan Mair ‡ Vappu Eerola Labbaci

Anthony Edmund Forte ‡ Birgitta Jonsdottir ‡ Cortney Davis ‡ Dina
Televitskaya ‡ Dinesh Adhikhari ‡ J D Ballam ‡ Joneve McCormick ‡ Kola
Boof ‡ Lasana Bandelè ‡ Milivoj Kostic-Kole ‡ Nan Geary ‡ Ron Hudson ‡
Saghi Ghahraman ‡ Todd Swift ‡ Wayne Amtzis

Anil Prasad ‡ Bryan Thao Worra ‡ Christiane Conesa Bostock ‡ Eric
Morris ‡ Farida Mihoub ‡ Jan Oskar Hansen ‡ Jean-Michel Maulpoix ‡ Joy
Goswami ‡ Karen Alkalay-Gut ‡ Kavita Jindal ‡ Roshanak Bigonah ‡ S.A.
Griffin ‡ Terry A. O'Neal ‡ The Welfare Poets ‡ Timothy Kaiser

Dee Rimbaud ‡ Durlabh Singh ‡ Janet Marie Rogers ‡ Jyotsana Prasad ‡
Leila Farjami ‡ Lys Anzia ‡ Mani Rao ‡ MariJo Moore ‡ Mary Anne
Mohanraj ‡ Paula Brown ‡ Rich Quatrone ‡ Roger Humes ‡ Ronnie Goodyer
‡ Sheema Kalbasi ‡ Teresia Teaiwa

A.D. Winans ‡ Alan Corkish ‡ Alessio Zanelli ‡ August Highland ‡
Aurora Antonovic ‡ C.E. Laine ‡ Chungmi Kim ‡ Daniela Gioseffi ‡ Jack
Micheline ‡ Mahmud Kianush ‡ Negar Hasan-Zadeh ‡ Renèe Sigel ‡ Susan
Millar DuMars ‡ The Botsotso Jesters ‡ Yoav J. Tenembaum

Forugh Farrokhzad ‡ fs ‡ Jimmy Santiago Baca ‡ Kevin Higgins ‡ Lisa
Zaran ‡ Mahmoud Darwish ‡ Mario Petrucci ‡ Maryam Hooleh ‡ Naomi
Shihab Nye ‡ Natasha Carrizosa ‡ Nathalie Handal ‡ Norman Cristofoli ‡
Seitlhamo Motsapi ‡ Tiffany Midge ‡ Wadih Sa'adeh

Dedicated to 1 Giant Leap: Jamie Catto and Duncan Bridgeman, whose
work partly inspired this project.

--
"Last Dream Today" performed live, some cool trumpet and saxophone
interplay between Riley Yielding & Sir Charles, video:

Post by George Dance
--
Post by George Dance
Twilight Girl, written by Will Dockery & Henry Conley, from the CD
Shadowville Speedway. © 2009
Gene Woolfolk, Jr. Drums: John http://youtu.be/BYETTK16jQI
George Dance
2009-06-09 00:06:48 UTC
Permalink
On Jun 8, 7:11 pm, Stuart Leichter <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:
snip
On that huge list of poets at the othervoicespoetry article, I recognize
Richard Shindell's name. He's worked with Dar Williams (Cry Cry Cry was
their combo's name). Also, of course, Hollis Summers. I knew him. He
must be in his 120s by now. He was at OU in its CW Golden Age, along
with Walter Tevis (The Hustler), Daniel Keyes (Flowers For Algernon aka
Charly), and Jack Matthews, the film critic (his novels are barely
known).
Thanks. It's an intimidating list, yeah? The only names I recognized
on it were Billy Collins, Desi DeNardo (from Tranna) and AAPC's own
R.K SINGH (as he likes to spell it here).

I appreciate you giving those who'd like to read there some guidance.
Post by George Dance
I might as well post the link to the anthology itself. There's more
tnan 600 poets represented here, something for every taste.
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/
Hey, that's a pretty fantastic collection. A shame to see the so-
called poets here ignore it as they do, but that's their loss.
Here's the list... who knows, some of these poets might Google their
name, come here to have a look, and join us. Now that would be a
great, since we obviously have a severe shortage of worthwhile
Ben Smith ‡ Charles Adés Fishman ‡ Christine De Luca ‡ Eqrem Basha ‡
George Dance ‡ George McWhirter ‡ Judy Halebsky ‡ Kiriu Minashita ‡
Linda Leedy Schneider ‡ Olimbi Velaj ‡ Richard Shindell ‡ Walid Saba ‡
Ziba Shirazi
Ahcene Mariche ‡ Chuck Brodsky ‡ Dee "Buckshot Dot" Strickland Johnson
‡ Emily K. Bright ‡ Ken McCullough ‡ Leonard J. Cirino ‡ Linda Albert
‡ Linh Dinh ‡ Niels Hav ‡ Ntsiki Mazwai ‡ Roger Sedarat ‡ Ryoko
Sekiguchi ‡ Takako Arai ‡ Tomaž Šalamun ‡ Valery Oisteanu
Bob Perelman ‡ Cath Koa Dunsford ‡ Chika Sagawa ‡ Dariusz Pacak ‡
Ibrahim Nasrallah ‡ John Amen ‡ Joseph Bruchac ‡ Luis Benítez ‡
Melissa Osborne ‡ Ram Krishna Singh ‡ Richard L. Provencher ‡ Sawako
Nakayasu ‡ Shameela Abraham ‡ Takashi Hiraide ‡ Tammy F. Trendle
Ario Elami ‡ Bruce Williams ‡ David Wilcox ‡ Denise Duhamel ‡ Eduards
Aivars ‡ Inara Cedrins ‡ Karen Douglass ‡ Margaret Bashaar ‡ Natasha
Kochicheril Moni ‡ Pam Brown ‡ Paul Bura ‡ Paul Hostovsky ‡ Rachel
Blau DuPlessis ‡ Rick Marlatt ‡ WisŁawa Szymborska
Cecilia Woloch ‡ Dan Waber ‡ Dorian Haarhoff ‡ Dr. Robyn Rowland AO ‡
Flora Brovina ‡ Jack DeWitt ‡ John Brandi ‡ Mammad Araz ‡ Maria Deyana
‡ Marianna Hofer ‡ Marzanna Bogumiła Kielar ‡ Nizar Kabbani ‡
Prabhatkiran Bose ‡ Renée Gregorio ‡ Steve Regan
Aram Saroyan ‡ Beau Hamel ‡ Diana Der-Hovanessian ‡Gerald McCarthy
‡Gregory Djanikian ‡ Halina Poświatowska ‡ Jean Narciso Bispo Moura ‡
Marilyn Rosenthal Rosenberg ‡ Patrice O’Neill & Maria Camillo ‡ Ricky
Rapoport Friesem ‡ Sarah Luczaj ‡ Sepideh Banihashemi ‡ Setareh Sabety
‡ Sharmagne Leland-St. John ‡ Yuri Andrukhovych
alcoholic poet ‡ Alexis N. Carra ‡ Andrew H. Oerke ‡ Adrian Grima ‡
Antoine Cassar ‡ George Murray ‡ John Hegley ‡ Lekshmy Rajeev ‡ Nancy
Johnson-Elami ‡ Nancy Shiffrin ‡ Negar Assari-Samimi ‡ Richard Jeffrey
Newman ‡ Sophie Hannah ‡ Stefan Hertmans ‡ Vivian Teter
Alan Gay ‡ Alev Adil ‡ Bernardo Atxaga ‡ Clare Azzopardi ‡ Fatima
Naoot ‡ Fred D'Aguiar ‡ George Szirtes ‡ Mahadai Das ‡ Meena Kandasamy
‡ Naim Araidi ‡ Pascale Petit ‡ Patrice Vecchione ‡ Robert Minhinnick
‡ Sandra Meek ‡ William Wall
Abbas Yamini Sharif ‡ Andy Brown ‡ Angela Gegg ‡ Bejan Baran ‡ Charles
Bernstein ‡ Chris Mansell ‡ Come Stand By My Window (500th Other
Voices' Entry) ‡ Jan Lauwereyns ‡ Kate Buckley ‡ Martha Deed ‡ Roya
Hakakian ‡ Samantha Wynne-Rhydderch ‡ Steven Robert Heine ‡ Tantra
Bensko ‡ Uddipana Goswami
Amy King ‡ Annie Finch ‡ Azarin Sadegh ‡ Bev Braune ‡ Brandy Stoner ‡
Erling Friis-Baastad ‡ George Mackay Brown ‡ James Galvin ‡ Jen
Hadfield ‡ Leslie Kreiner Wilson ‡ Maria Teresa Ogliastri ‡ May Ng ‡
rob mclennan ‡ Sina Moayedi ‡ Stephanie Bolster
Arezou Mokhtarian ‡ Cristina Castello ‡ Diane Ackerman ‡ Douglas
Pinson ‡ Elena Karina Byrne ‡ Fiona Sampson ‡ Hisashi Nakamura ‡
Jeffrey Ethan Lee ‡ John Row ‡ Laala Kashef Alghata ‡ Leanne Averbach
‡ Margaret Saine ‡ Rasma Haidri ‡ Ray McNiece ‡ Sophie Moleta
Amir Or ‡ Carolyn Kreiter-Foronda ‡ Coleman Barks ‡ Emanuel Xavier ‡
Felix Cheong ‡ Janice Ian ‡ Joy Harjo ‡ Luisa Igloria ‡ Mario Susko ‡
Myrna Amelia Mesa ‡ Natalie Diaz ‡ Pattiann Rogers ‡ Prince Mensah ‡
Stefi Weisburd ‡ Yevgeny Yevtushenko
Ana Elsner ‡ Billy Collins ‡ Cati Porter ‡ Desi Di Nardo ‡ Dorianne
Laux ‡ Edessa Ramos ‡ Emma Neale ‡ Eric Nelson ‡ Levi J Attias ‡ Mary
Guckian ‡ Michael Lee Johnson ‡ Mukesh Williams ‡ PB Rippey ‡
Rethabile Masilo ‡ Tom Keene
Afshin Babazadeh ‡ Agron Tufa ‡ Clara Hsu ‡ Dan McManus ‡ Jens Fink-
Jensen ‡ Kemp ‡ Luljeta Lleshanaku ‡ Manouchehr Saadat Noury ‡ Mahnaz
Badihian ‡ Mirko Gashi ‡ Nafiss Nia ‡ Robab Moheb ‡ Sam Vaseghi ‡
Samsum Kashfi ‡ Shirin Razavian
Adeena Karasick ‡ David Lunde ‡ Diana Woodcock ‡ Hadi Khojinian ‡
Jennifer Maldonado ‡ Jeton Kelmendi ‡ Kellye Betancourt ‡ Marc Olmsted
‡ Natasha Turner ‡ Paige O'Neill ‡ Rira Abbasi ‡ Terry Henderson ‡
Ursula K. Le Guin ‡ Yun Wang ‡ Zinat al Sadat Pirzadeh
Aju Mukhopadhyay ‡ Andrew David King ‡ Babak Seradjeh ‡ Candy Tothill
‡ Collin Kelley ‡ Deanna Shapiro ‡ Jerah Chadwick ‡ Lucinda Clark ‡
mshairi ‡ Rahim Asgard ‡ Rich Ferguson ‡ Robert Rothstein ‡ Samira
Mohyeddin ‡ Silvia Favaretto ‡ Trenton Davis
ASCAFS ‡ Benjamin Estrada ‡ Brandon Cesmat ‡ B.M. Dzukogi ‡ Carol
Desjarlais ‡ Claire Beynon ‡ Cyril Wong ‡ Hassan Najmi ‡ Lucy Bucknall
‡ Matubuna Tahun ‡ Nicholas Y.B. Wong ‡ R. Purushothama Rao ‡ Tobi
Cogswell ‡ Uche Peter Umez ‡ V.M. Airu
Abdulwahab Mihoub ‡ Achy Obejas ‡ Jack Fulbeck ‡ Kamar Hamza ‡ Ken
Waldman‡ Mario Bellizzi ‡ Maurice Oliver ‡ Michael R. Burch ‡ Mimoza
Ahmeti ‡ Rita Odeh ‡ Rita Petro ‡ Ruth Daigon ‡ Tammy Ho Lai-ming ‡
Touria Majdouline ‡ Yashar Ahad Saremi
Ali Alizadeh ‡ Ali Zarrin ‡ Cynthia Bryant ‡ Elham Gheytanchi ‡
Farinaz Aryanfar ‡ Gary Freedman ‡ Luis Alberto Ambroggio ‡ M. Reza
Eslami ‡ Mahboudeh Shad ‡ Matthew Barraza ‡ Phillip Zhuwao ‡ Ron
Cervero ‡ Tina Ehrami ‡ Tracee Coleman ‡ Zohreh Khazai Ghahremani
Alana Tanksley ‡ Arlene Ang ‡ Christine Hume ‡ Daniel Y. Harris ‡
Daniele Pantano ‡ D.H. Melhem ‡ Dimitris Lyacos ‡ Ellis Paul ‡ Hadi
Khorsandi ‡ Mahasti Shahrokhi ‡ Sepideh Jodeyri ‡ Steven Brewer ‡
Vernon Montoya ‡ Virgilio Rivas ‡ Yahia Lababidi
Andy N ‡ Eila Mahima Jaipaul ‡ Joel B. Peckham, Jr. ‡ Katayoon
Zandvakili ‡ Lindita Arapi ‡ Mana Aghaee ‡ Mandana Zandian ‡ Mimi
Khalvati ‡ Naanaam ‡ Sabri Hamiti ‡ Sheida Mohamadi ‡ Shin Kyong-rim ‡
Sholeh Wolpé ‡ silent lotus ‡ Young-Moo Kim
Alison Wong ‡ Andrew Demčak ‡ Bryan Murphy ‡ Chris O’Carroll ‡ Gabriel
Impaglione ‡ Gian Paolo Guerini ‡ Giovanna Mulas ‡ Hristo Mednikarov ‡
Kevin Patrick Sullivan ‡ Linzy Forbes ‡ Michael E. Stone ‡ Nikahang
Kowsar ‡ Paul Decelles ‡ Riina Katajavuori ‡ Sharon Esther Lampert
Attila the Stockbroker ‡ Dima Hilal ‡ Dimitris P. Kraniotis ‡ Fide
Erken ‡ J. Marcus Weekley ‡ Jerry Beale ‡ Jonka Hristova ‡ Kostas
Hrisos ‡ Laurence Overmire ‡ Morgaine ‡ Naia ‡ Uldis Bērziņš ‡ Ulrike
Gerbig ‡ Üzeyir Çayci ‡ Wanda D. Campbell
Ashraf Osman ‡ Daniel Abdal-Hayy Moore ‡ Dr. Amitabh Mitra ‡ Duane
Locke ‡ Jeffrey Spahr-Summers ‡ Jose Antonio Cangco ‡ Kyoko Uchida ‡
Maria Haeri ‡ Monica E. Smith ‡ Nora Nadjarian ‡ Prince Odimegwu ...
read more »
Will Dockery
2009-06-09 17:30:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
snip
On that huge list of poets at the othervoicespoetry article, I recognize
Richard Shindell's name. He's worked with Dar Williams (Cry Cry Cry was
their combo's name).
Dar Williams, excellent... I don't see her brought up nearly as much
as I'd like. She deserves a thread all her own.

I'll look for Richard Shindell in the anthology, for sure, then.

Also, of course, Hollis Summers. I knew him. He
Post by George Dance
must be in his 120s by now. He was at OU in its CW Golden Age, along
with Walter Tevis (The Hustler), Daniel Keyes (Flowers For Algernon aka
Charly), and Jack Matthews, the film critic (his novels are barely
known).
Thanks. It's an intimidating list, yeah? The only names I recognized
on it were Billy Collins, Desi DeNardo (from Tranna) and AAPC's own
R.K SINGH (as he likes to spell it here).
I appreciate you giving those who'd like to read there some guidance.
Post by George Dance
I might as well post the link to the anthology itself. There's more
tnan 600 poets represented here, something for every taste.
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/
Hey, that's a pretty fantastic collection. A shame to see the so-
called poets here ignore it as they do, but that's their loss.
Here's the list... who knows, some of these poets might Google their
name, come here to have a look, and join us. Now that would be a
great, since we obviously have a severe shortage of worthwhile
Ben Smith ‡ Charles Adés Fishman ‡ Christine De Luca ‡ Eqrem Basha ‡
George Dance ‡ George McWhirter ‡ Judy Halebsky ‡ Kiriu Minashita ‡
Linda Leedy Schneider ‡ Olimbi Velaj ‡ Richard Shindell ‡ Walid Saba ‡
Ziba Shirazi
Ahcene Mariche ‡ Chuck Brodsky ‡ Dee "Buckshot Dot" Strickland Johnson
‡ Emily K. Bright ‡ Ken McCullough ‡ Leonard J. Cirino ‡ Linda Albert
‡ Linh Dinh ‡ Niels Hav ‡ Ntsiki Mazwai ‡ Roger Sedarat ‡ Ryoko
Sekiguchi ‡ Takako Arai ‡ Tomaž Šalamun ‡ Valery Oisteanu
Bob Perelman ‡ Cath Koa Dunsford ‡ Chika Sagawa ‡ Dariusz Pacak ‡
Ibrahim Nasrallah ‡ John Amen ‡ Joseph Bruchac ‡ Luis Benítez ‡
Melissa Osborne ‡ Ram Krishna Singh ‡ Richard L. Provencher ‡ Sawako
Nakayasu ‡ Shameela Abraham ‡ Takashi Hiraide ‡ Tammy F. Trendle
Ario Elami ‡ Bruce Williams ‡ David Wilcox ‡ Denise Duhamel ‡ Eduards
Aivars ‡ Inara Cedrins ‡ Karen Douglass ‡ Margaret Bashaar ‡ Natasha
Kochicheril Moni ‡ Pam Brown ‡ Paul Bura ‡ Paul Hostovsky ‡ Rachel
Blau DuPlessis ‡ Rick Marlatt ‡ WisŁawa Szymborska
Cecilia Woloch ‡ Dan Waber ‡ Dorian Haarhoff ‡ Dr. Robyn Rowland AO ‡
Flora Brovina ‡ Jack DeWitt ‡ John Brandi ‡ Mammad Araz ‡ Maria Deyana
‡ Marianna Hofer ‡ Marzanna Bogumiła Kielar ‡ Nizar Kabbani ‡
Prabhatkiran Bose ‡ Renée Gregorio ‡ Steve Regan
Aram Saroyan ‡ Beau Hamel ‡ Diana Der-Hovanessian ‡Gerald McCarthy
‡Gregory Djanikian ‡ Halina Poświatowska ‡ Jean Narciso Bispo Moura ‡
Marilyn Rosenthal Rosenberg ‡ Patrice O’Neill & Maria Camillo ‡ Ricky
Rapoport Friesem ‡ Sarah Luczaj ‡ Sepideh Banihashemi ‡ Setareh Sabety
‡ Sharmagne Leland-St. John ‡ Yuri Andrukhovych
alcoholic poet ‡ Alexis N. Carra ‡ Andrew H. Oerke ‡ Adrian Grima ‡
Antoine Cassar ‡ George Murray ‡ John Hegley ‡ Lekshmy Rajeev ‡ Nancy
Johnson-Elami ‡ Nancy Shiffrin ‡ Negar Assari-Samimi ‡ Richard Jeffrey
Newman ‡ Sophie Hannah ‡ Stefan Hertmans ‡ Vivian Teter
Alan Gay ‡ Alev Adil ‡ Bernardo Atxaga ‡ Clare Azzopardi ‡ Fatima
Naoot ‡ Fred D'Aguiar ‡ George Szirtes ‡ Mahadai Das ‡ Meena Kandasamy
‡ Naim Araidi ‡ Pascale Petit ‡ Patrice Vecchione ‡ Robert Minhinnick
‡ Sandra Meek ‡ William Wall
Abbas Yamini Sharif ‡ Andy Brown ‡ Angela Gegg ‡ Bejan Baran ‡ Charles
Bernstein ‡ Chris Mansell ‡ Come Stand By My Window (500th Other
Voices' Entry) ‡ Jan Lauwereyns ‡ Kate Buckley ‡ Martha Deed ‡ Roya
Hakakian ‡ Samantha Wynne-Rhydderch ‡ Steven Robert Heine ‡ Tantra
Bensko ‡ Uddipana Goswami
Amy King ‡ Annie Finch ‡ Azarin Sadegh ‡ Bev Braune ‡ Brandy Stoner ‡
Erling Friis-Baastad ‡ George Mackay Brown ‡ James Galvin ‡ Jen
Hadfield ‡ Leslie Kreiner Wilson ‡ Maria Teresa Ogliastri ‡ May Ng ‡
rob mclennan ‡ Sina Moayedi ‡ Stephanie Bolster
Arezou Mokhtarian ‡ Cristina Castello ‡ Diane Ackerman ‡ Douglas
Pinson ‡ Elena Karina Byrne ‡ Fiona Sampson ‡ Hisashi Nakamura ‡
Jeffrey Ethan Lee ‡ John Row ‡ Laala Kashef Alghata ‡ Leanne Averbach
‡ Margaret Saine ‡ Rasma Haidri ‡ Ray McNiece ‡ Sophie Moleta
Amir Or ‡ Carolyn Kreiter-Foronda ‡ Coleman Barks ‡ Emanuel Xavier ‡
Felix Cheong ‡ Janice Ian ‡ Joy Harjo ‡ Luisa Igloria ‡ Mario Susko ‡
Myrna Amelia Mesa ‡ Natalie Diaz ‡ Pattiann Rogers ‡ Prince Mensah ‡
Stefi Weisburd ‡ Yevgeny Yevtushenko
Ana Elsner ‡ Billy Collins ‡ Cati Porter ‡ Desi Di Nardo ‡ Dorianne
Laux ‡ Edessa Ramos ‡ Emma Neale ‡ Eric Nelson ‡ Levi J Attias ‡ Mary
Guckian ‡ Michael Lee Johnson ‡ Mukesh Williams ‡ PB Rippey ‡
Rethabile Masilo ‡ Tom Keene
Afshin Babazadeh ‡ Agron Tufa ‡ Clara Hsu ‡ Dan McManus ‡ Jens Fink-
Jensen ‡ Kemp ‡ Luljeta Lleshanaku ‡ Manouchehr Saadat Noury ‡ Mahnaz
Badihian ‡ Mirko Gashi ‡ Nafiss Nia ‡ Robab Moheb ‡ Sam Vaseghi ‡
Samsum Kashfi ‡ Shirin Razavian
Adeena Karasick ‡ David Lunde ‡ Diana Woodcock ‡ Hadi Khojinian ‡
Jennifer Maldonado ‡ Jeton Kelmendi ‡ Kellye Betancourt ‡ Marc Olmsted
‡ Natasha Turner ‡ Paige O'Neill ‡ Rira Abbasi ‡ Terry Henderson ‡
Ursula K. Le Guin ‡ Yun Wang ‡ Zinat al Sadat Pirzadeh
Aju Mukhopadhyay ‡ Andrew David King ‡ Babak Seradjeh ‡ Candy Tothill
‡ Collin Kelley ‡ Deanna Shapiro ‡ Jerah Chadwick ‡ Lucinda Clark ‡
mshairi ‡ Rahim Asgard ‡ Rich Ferguson ‡ Robert Rothstein ‡ Samira
Mohyeddin ‡ Silvia Favaretto ‡ Trenton Davis
ASCAFS ‡ Benjamin Estrada ‡ Brandon Cesmat ‡ B.M. Dzukogi ‡ Carol
Desjarlais ‡ Claire Beynon ‡ Cyril Wong ‡ Hassan Najmi ‡ Lucy Bucknall
‡ Matubuna Tahun ‡ Nicholas Y.B. Wong ‡ R. Purushothama Rao ‡ Tobi
Cogswell ‡ Uche Peter Umez ‡ V.M. Airu
Abdulwahab Mihoub ‡ Achy Obejas ‡ Jack Fulbeck ‡ Kamar Hamza ‡ Ken
Waldman‡ Mario Bellizzi ‡ Maurice Oliver ‡ Michael R. Burch ‡ Mimoza
Ahmeti ‡ Rita Odeh ‡ Rita Petro ‡ Ruth Daigon ‡ Tammy Ho Lai-ming ‡
Touria Majdouline ‡ Yashar Ahad Saremi
Ali Alizadeh ‡ Ali Zarrin ‡ Cynthia Bryant ‡ Elham Gheytanchi ‡
Farinaz Aryanfar ‡ Gary Freedman ‡ Luis Alberto Ambroggio ‡ M. Reza
Eslami ‡ Mahboudeh Shad ‡ Matthew Barraza ‡ Phillip Zhuwao ‡ Ron
Cervero ‡ Tina Ehrami ‡ Tracee Coleman ‡ Zohreh Khazai Ghahremani
Alana Tanksley ‡ Arlene Ang ‡ Christine Hume ‡ Daniel Y. Harris ‡
Daniele Pantano ‡ D.H. Melhem ‡ Dimitris Lyacos ‡ Ellis Paul ‡ Hadi
Khorsandi ‡ Mahasti Shahrokhi ‡ Sepideh Jodeyri ‡ Steven Brewer ‡
Vernon Montoya ‡ Virgilio Rivas ‡ Yahia Lababidi
Andy N ‡ Eila Mahima Jaipaul ‡ Joel B. Peckham, Jr. ‡ Katayoon
Zandvakili ‡ Lindita Arapi ‡ Mana Aghaee ‡ Mandana Zandian ‡ Mimi
Khalvati ‡ Naanaam ‡ Sabri Hamiti ‡ Sheida Mohamadi ‡ Shin Kyong-rim ‡
Sholeh Wolpé ‡ silent lotus ‡ Young-Moo Kim
Alison Wong ‡ Andrew Demčak ‡ Bryan Murphy ‡ Chris O’Carroll ‡ Gabriel
Impaglione ‡ Gian Paolo Guerini ‡ Giovanna Mulas ‡ Hristo Mednikarov ‡
Kevin Patrick Sullivan ‡ Linzy Forbes ‡ Michael E. Stone ‡ Nikahang
Kowsar ‡ Paul Decelles ‡ Riina Katajavuori ‡ Sharon Esther Lampert
Attila the Stockbroker ‡ Dima Hilal ‡ Dimitris P. Kraniotis ‡ Fide
Erken ‡ J. Marcus Weekley ‡ Jerry Beale ‡ Jonka Hristova ‡ Kostas
Hrisos ‡ Laurence Overmire ‡ Morgaine ‡ Naia ‡ Uldis Bērziņš ‡ Ulrike
Gerbig ‡ Üzeyir Çayci ‡ Wanda D. Campbell
Ashraf Osman ‡ Daniel Abdal-Hayy Moore ‡ Dr. Amitabh Mitra ‡ Duane
Locke ‡ Jeffrey Spahr-Summers ‡ Jose Antonio Cangco ‡ Kyoko Uchida ‡
Maria Haeri ‡ Monica E. Smith ‡ Nora Nadjarian ‡ Prince Odimegwu ...
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach.
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
George Dance
2009-06-09 23:32:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
snip
On that huge list of poets at the othervoicespoetry article, I recognize
Richard Shindell's name. He's worked with Dar Williams (Cry Cry Cry was
their combo's name).
Dar Williams, excellent... I don't see her brought up nearly as much
as I'd like. She deserves a thread all her own.
I'll look for Richard Shindell in the anthology, for sure, then.
I think you'd enjoy reading Shindell, if you get the time to sit down
and read him without rushing through his words. Here's a bit from his
OV bio:

"An expatriate New Yorker now living in Buenos Aires, Argentina,
Richard Shindell is a meticulous craftsman of song whose six studio
albums and one live recording have been revered by critics and fans
alike. Innovative, original and occasionally spiritual, Shindell's
songs weave tales that interchangeably champion the downtrodden, exalt
the disaffected or wax empathetic to those lost to society's fringes.
From his first record, Sparrow's Point (1992) to the newest album
Vuelta (2004), Shindell has demonstrated a penchant for songwriting at
once passionate and profound. His songs are often slowly and
painstakingly crafted until honed to perfection. Conversely, he is
also capable of writing tunes that are simply clever and amusing.

"Shindell's songwriting is truly eclectic, ranging from lighthearted
ballads and adulterous love songs, to dirges and diatribes that
skillfully skewer politics, prejudice, war and religion. He has a
unique ability to morph into the soul of the many and varied
personalities he casts as narrators in certain songs--songs that are
veritable novellas framed in haunting acoustic melodies, sometimes
including cryptic, revelations through the eyes of a woman."

Here's the link to the rest, and to some of his lyrics:

http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol42/shindell/index.html
Will Dockery
2009-06-10 08:06:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
On that huge list of poets at the othervoicespoetry article, I recognize
Richard Shindell's name. He's worked with Dar Williams (Cry Cry Cry was
their combo's name).
Dar Williams, excellent... I don't see her brought up nearly as much
as I'd like. She deserves a thread all her own.
I'll look for Richard Shindell in the anthology, for sure, then.
I think you'd enjoy reading Shindell, if you get the time to sit down
and read him without rushing through his words. Here's a bit from his
OV bio:

"An expatriate New Yorker now living in Buenos Aires, Argentina,
Richard Shindell is a meticulous craftsman of song whose six studio
albums and one live recording have been revered by critics and fans
alike. Innovative, original and occasionally spiritual, Shindell's
songs weave tales that interchangeably champion the downtrodden, exalt
the disaffected or wax empathetic to those lost to society's fringes.
From his first record, Sparrow's Point (1992) to the newest album
Vuelta (2004), Shindell has demonstrated a penchant for songwriting at
once passionate and profound. His songs are often slowly and
painstakingly crafted until honed to perfection. Conversely, he is
also capable of writing tunes that are simply clever and amusing.

"Shindell's songwriting is truly eclectic, ranging from lighthearted
ballads and adulterous love songs, to dirges and diatribes that
skillfully skewer politics, prejudice, war and religion. He has a
unique ability to morph into the soul of the many and varied
personalities he casts as narrators in certain songs--songs that are
veritable novellas framed in haunting acoustic melodies, sometimes
including cryptic, revelations through the eyes of a woman."

Here's the link to the rest, and to some of his lyrics:

http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol42/shindell/index.html

I found a great batch of Richard Shindell performance video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=richard+shendell&aq=f

'wisteria'
recorded in march 2003, at a small venue in columbus ohio, richard shindell
performs the beautiful and poignant song wisteria.

"are you happy now?"
a richard shindell standard, this live version contains the discription of
the songs origin.

Ballad of Mary Magdalen
Richard Shindell and Lucy Kaplansky at the Kent Stage singing the " Ballad
of Mary Magdelalen. Kent, Ohio March 24, 2007

And on and on... thanks for pointing me in his direction, fellows.
--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by Brian
Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach.
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Will Dockery
2009-06-11 09:50:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by George Dance
Post by George Dance
I've been reading the Other Voices International cyber-anthology,
which archives over 600 poets from around the world. Actually, in one
month I've managed to read only the 15 poets archived in Vol. 40.
I've definitely found a preference in that volume: Roger Sedarat and
his 6-poem selection, "The Prophet."
Letters to the Islamic Republic (Ohio UP), which won the Hollis
Summers Prize. His poems and translations have appeared in such
journals as New England Review, Poet Lore, and Iranian.com. A
recipient of scholarships to the Bread Loaf Writers' Conference and a
St. Botolph poetry grant, he teaches poetry and translation in the MFA
program at Queens College, City University of New York."
As a sample of Sedarat's style, here's a selection from his poem,
The Prophet as Analysand
[...]
And the therapist said, “Think of it like
the rough draft of a poem, Haji,
just let your words escape without editing.
And Haji the poet cum prophet replied,
“Huffy Haji hid the day…”
“That’s John Berryman, Haji!” exclaimed the therapist.
“You're plagiarizing! Why do you feel the need to copy
when invited to speak for yourself?”
“Because,” replied Haji, “you’re only as sick
 as your secrets.”
“Berrryman said that too!” Exclaimed the therapist.
[...]
plus a couple of stanzas from his ghazal,
Gazelle in a Ghazal
[...]
My Father cried his life was all a lie,
Perfect material for the ghazal.
As the lion will stalk its prey, the poet
Will seek to work his name in the ghazal.
[...]
Resisting the couplet’s will to define
Both constructs and deconstructs the ghazal.
[...]
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html
Ah, since a couple of people are interested in poetry here again,
suddenly, perhaps it may be a good idea to get this thread back to the
topic intended for it, the one that was intentionally derailed by
false allegations and the later setting the record straight period.
Thanks for reposting the link.
I might as well post the link to the anthology itself. There's more
tnan 600 poets represented here, something for every taste.
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/
And a good place to point new poets to when evoking the "read 600
poems before writing one of your own" rule... heh.

--
"She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach.
http://youtu.be/9uGY157cpiU
Post by George Dance
--
Post by George Dance
Twilight Girl, written by Will Dockery & Henry Conley, from the CD
Shadowville Speedway. © 2009
Gene Woolfolk, Jr. Drums: John http://youtu.be/BYETTK16jQI
=z=
2009-06-11 11:05:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by George Dance
Post by George Dance
I've been reading the Other Voices International cyber-anthology,
which archives over 600 poets from around the world. Actually, in one
month I've managed to read only the 15 poets archived in Vol. 40.
I've definitely found a preference in that volume: Roger Sedarat and
his 6-poem selection, "The Prophet."
Letters to the Islamic Republic (Ohio UP), which won the Hollis
Summers Prize. His poems and translations have appeared in such
journals as New England Review, Poet Lore, and Iranian.com. A
recipient of scholarships to the Bread Loaf Writers' Conference and a
St. Botolph poetry grant, he teaches poetry and translation in the MFA
program at Queens College, City University of New York."
As a sample of Sedarat's style, here's a selection from his poem,
The Prophet as Analysand
[...]
And the therapist said, “Think of it like
the rough draft of a poem, Haji,
just let your words escape without editing.
And Haji the poet cum prophet replied,
“Huffy Haji hid the day…”
“That’s John Berryman, Haji!” exclaimed the therapist.
“You're plagiarizing! Why do you feel the need to copy
when invited to speak for yourself?”
“Because,” replied Haji, “you’re only as sick
as your secrets.”
“Berrryman said that too!” Exclaimed the therapist.
[...]
plus a couple of stanzas from his ghazal,
Gazelle in a Ghazal
[...]
My Father cried his life was all a lie,
Perfect material for the ghazal.
As the lion will stalk its prey, the poet
Will seek to work his name in the ghazal.
[...]
Resisting the couplet’s will to define
Both constructs and deconstructs the ghazal.
[...]
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html
Ah, since a couple of people are interested in poetry here again,
suddenly, perhaps it may be a good idea to get this thread back to the
topic intended for it, the one that was intentionally derailed by
false allegations and the later setting the record straight period.
Thanks for reposting the link.
I might as well post the link to the anthology itself. There's more
tnan 600 poets represented here, something for every taste.
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/
And a good place to point new poets to when evoking the "read 600
poems before writing one of your own" rule... heh.

or better yet, write 600 poems before writing one of your own...
-_there is no such thing as original, all are derivative of something
else-_...
Will Dockery
2009-06-17 05:00:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by George Dance
Post by George Dance
I've been reading the Other Voices International cyber-anthology,
which archives over 600 poets from around the world. Actually, in one
month I've managed to read only the 15 poets archived in Vol. 40.
I've definitely found a preference in that volume: Roger Sedarat and
his 6-poem selection, "The Prophet."
Letters to the Islamic Republic (Ohio UP), which won the Hollis
Summers Prize. His poems and translations have appeared in such
journals as New England Review, Poet Lore, and Iranian.com. A
recipient of scholarships to the Bread Loaf Writers' Conference and a
St. Botolph poetry grant, he teaches poetry and translation in the MFA
program at Queens College, City University of New York."
As a sample of Sedarat's style, here's a selection from his poem,
The Prophet as Analysand
[...]
And the therapist said, “Think of it like
the rough draft of a poem, Haji,
just let your words escape without editing.
And Haji the poet cum prophet replied,
“Huffy Haji hid the day…”
“That’s John Berryman, Haji!” exclaimed the therapist.
“You're plagiarizing! Why do you feel the need to copy
when invited to speak for yourself?”
“Because,” replied Haji, “you’re only as sick
as your secrets.”
“Berrryman said that too!” Exclaimed the therapist.
[...]
plus a couple of stanzas from his ghazal,
Gazelle in a Ghazal
[...]
My Father cried his life was all a lie,
Perfect material for the ghazal.
As the lion will stalk its prey, the poet
Will seek to work his name in the ghazal.
[...]
Resisting the couplet’s will to define
Both constructs and deconstructs the ghazal.
[...]
In case it matters, I’ll tell you: my name
Is Haji; I live inside the ghazal.
---
"The Prophet", Roger Sedarat
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/vol41/sedarat/index.html
Ah, since a couple of people are interested in poetry here again,
suddenly, perhaps it may be a good idea to get this thread back to the
topic intended for it, the one that was intentionally derailed by
false allegations and the later setting the record straight period.
Thanks for reposting the link.
I might as well post the link to the anthology itself. There's more
tnan 600 poets represented here, something for every taste.
http://www.othervoicespoetry.org/
And a good place to point new poets to when evoking the "read 600
poems before writing one of your own" rule... heh.
or better yet, write 600 poems before writing one of your own...
-_there is no such thing as original, all are derivative of something
else-_...
A slight variation of that statement is was what Rock Killough, a
master songwriter I met at Hogbottom in April (well known to Nashville-
C&W circles), told me while we were talking about songs and
songwriting, "The first 500 songs don't count."

--
"Ashes to Justice", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Words and music by Dockery & Mallard.


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