"Are Haiku poems?"

[Will Dockery]

Karla said:
>
> Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?

Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
America:

http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html

"...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
yet make you see the real thing.' Just as he changed the standards of
prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."

I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery (no charge!):
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[George Dance]

On Sep 21, 5:36 pm, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Karla said:
>
>
>
> > Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?
>
> Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> America:
>
> http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> "...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> yet make you see the real thing.'  Just as he changed the standards of
> prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."

Yes, certainly haiku (or any tercets) can be poems. A poem can have as
little as one line.

> I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
> to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.
>

Or as "Haiku", FTM. That has been a problem I've had in explaining why
I didn't consider them poems: I found two of them, but lost them
again, and never did find the third, so I can't even point to them.
But it's not why I don't consider them poems.

Hmmm... Maybe I should write something in general terms about that -
then if I do find the haiku, I can refer to it -- and even if I don't,
it's more likely to be read than something buried down here, anyway.


.





> --
> Music & poetry of Will Dockery (no charge!):http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Will Dockery]

On Sep 21, 5:54 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Sep 21, 5:36 pm, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Karla said:
>
> > > Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?
>
> > Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> > as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> > America:
>
> >http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> > "...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> > to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> > image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> > portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> > spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> > in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> > The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> > yet make you see the real thing.'  Just as he changed the standards of
> > prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> > believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> > lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> > graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> > of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> > recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> > which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> > of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."
>
> Yes, certainly haiku (or any tercets) can be poems. A poem can have as
> little as one line.
>
> > I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
> > to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.
>
> Or as "Haiku", FTM. That has been a problem I've had in explaining why
> I didn't consider them poems: I found two of them, but lost them
> again, and never did find the third, so I can't even point to them.

I don't remember any of these haikus, either, which was why I reposted
her list with the intention of linking to the poems I did remember &
recognize, along with my in-depth commentaries of some of them, and
asked her to post links to the others, or all of the poems.

> But it's not why I don't consider them poems.
>
> Hmmm... Maybe I should write something in general terms about that -
> then if I do find the haiku, I can refer to it -- and even if I don't,
> it's more likely to be read than something buried down here, anyway.
>
> .> --
> > Music & poetry of Will Dockery (no charge!):

http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

Haiku are the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
important for me than grammar.

This is not a hai-
ku, because it fails to in-
dicate a season.
_______
http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/ Orchard_Farmer is a haiku.

[Colonel Edmund J. Burke]

THERE YOU HAVE IT, FOLKS. A GAY BLADE USENET CLUSTER FUCK, RIGHT IN FRONT
OF YA!

[Leisha]

On Sep 23, 1:14 pm, "Bohgosity BumaskiL"
<***@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
> Haiku are the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
> I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
> sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
> important for me than grammar.
>
> This is not a hai-
> ku, because it fails to in-
> dicate a season.
> _______http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/Orchard_Farmer is a haiku.

Cups of pinot noir.
Firelight, full moon, rich earth.
September harvest.

Leisha

[Will Dockery]

Leisha <***@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
>"Bohgosity BumaskiL" wrote:
>
> Haiku are the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
> > I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
> > sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
> > important for me than grammar.
>
> > This is not a hai-
> > ku, because it fails to in-
> > dicate a season.
> > _______http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/Orchard_Farmeris a haiku.
>
> Cups of pinot noir.
> Firelight, full moon, rich earth.
> September harvest.
>
> Leisha

Nice.. and nice to see you back, however briefly, Leisha.

On the subject of Haiku, and Karla's sveral from earlier this year, I
went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
writing Haiku, and found a couple that I had written... and had almost
forgotten:

http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/04b12612e6b84d2c

Sandy makes me think of a haiku, though unfinished.

Bluebird
on white snow
shivers her timbers.

-Will Dockery

and

http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/83ca63c73f6fba74

Iron Butterfly
comes to mind
1970s breeze.

-Will Dockery

Meanwhile, The Search continues...

--
T.O.T.M. (Theatre Of The Mind):
* Brian Vaughan: Synthesizers, guitar, loopers, a lot of various
effects, software workstation, sound engineering.
* Brian Fowler: Guitar, bass, theremin, percussion, drums, violin,
mandolin, rhodes piano, lyrics & vocals, sound engineering.
* Will Dockery: Resident space poet, lyrics & vocal performances.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/pages/TOTM-Theatre-Of-The-Mind/162320477117852?ref=mf

[George Dance]

On Sep 29, 10:05 am, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Leisha <***@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
> >"Bohgosity BumaskiL" wrote:
>
> >Haikuare the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
> > > I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
> > > sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
> > > important for me than grammar.
>
> > > This is not a hai-
> > > ku, because it fails to in-
> > > dicate a season.
> > > _______http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/Orchard_Farmerisahaiku.
>
> > Cups of pinot noir.
> > Firelight, full moon, rich earth.
> > September harvest.
>
> > Leisha
>
> Nice.. and nice to see you back, however briefly, Leisha.
>
> On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year, I
> went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
> was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
> writingHaiku, and found a couple that I had written... and had almost
> forgotten:
>
> http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/04b12612e6b84d2c
>
> Sandy makes me think of ahaiku, though unfinished.
>
> Bluebird
> on white snow
> shivers her timbers.
>
> -Will Dockery
>
> and
>
> http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/83ca63c73f6fba74
>
> Iron Butterfly
> comes to mind
> 1970s breeze.
>
> -Will Dockery
>
> Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>

I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list was
never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).

BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list. So far I've
found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and 11 possible new
poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll appreciate hearing
about it as well.

> --
> T.O.T.M. (Theatre Of The Mind):
> * Brian Vaughan: Synthesizers, guitar, loopers, a lot of various
> effects, software workstation, sound engineering.
> * Brian Fowler: Guitar, bass, theremin, percussion, drums, violin,
> mandolin, rhodes piano, lyrics & vocals, sound engineering.
> * Will Dockery: Resident space poet, lyrics & vocal performances.http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/pages/TOTM-Theatre-Of-The-Mi...

[Will Dockery]

On Oct 1, 7:54 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Sep 29, 10:05 am, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Leisha <***@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
> > >"Bohgosity BumaskiL" wrote:
>
> > >Haikuare the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
> > > > I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
> > > > sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
> > > > important for me than grammar.
>
> > > > This is not a hai-
> > > > ku, because it fails to in-
> > > > dicate a season.
> > > > _______http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/Orchard_Farmerisahaiku.
>
> > > Cups of pinot noir.
> > > Firelight, full moon, rich earth.
> > > September harvest.
>
> > > Leisha
>
> > Nice.. and nice to see you back, however briefly, Leisha.
>
> > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year, I
> > went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
> > was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
> > writingHaiku, and found a couple that I had written... and had almost
> > forgotten:
>
> >http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/04b12612e6b84d2c
>
> > Sandy makes me think of ahaiku, though unfinished.
>
> > Bluebird
> > on white snow
> > shivers her timbers.
>
> > -Will Dockery
>
> > and
>
> >http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/83ca63c73f6fba74
>
> > Iron Butterfly
> > comes to mind
> > 1970s breeze.
>
> > -Will Dockery
>
> > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list was
> never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.

I wonder what was up with that?

So far I've
> found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and 11 possible new
> poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll appreciate hearing
> about it as well.

Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
interesting.

> --
> > T.O.T.M. (Theatre Of The Mind):
> > * Brian Vaughan: Synthesizers, guitar, loopers, a lot of various
> > effects, software workstation, sound engineering.
> > * Brian Fowler: Guitar, bass, theremin, percussion, drums, violin,
> > mandolin, rhodes piano, lyrics & vocals, sound engineering.
> > * Will Dockery: Resident space poet, lyrics & vocal performances.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/pages/TOTM-Theatre-Of-The-Mi...

The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas:

http://www.online-literature.com/dumas/cristo/

--
--
"Shadowville Speedway" CD on Artemis Records:
http://www.artemisrecords.net/dockeryconley.html

[George Dance]

On Oct 1, 9:08 pm, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 1, 7:54 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 29, 10:05 am, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> Leisha <***@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
> > > >"Bohgosity BumaskiL" wrote:
>
> > > >Haikuare the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
> > > > > I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
> > > > > sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
> > > > > important for me than grammar.
>
> > > > > This is not a hai-
> > > > > ku, because it fails to in-
> > > > > dicate a season.
> > > > > _______http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/Orchard_Farmerisahaiku.
>
> > > > Cups of pinot noir.
> > > > Firelight, full moon, rich earth.
> > > > September harvest.
>
> > > > Leisha
>
> > > Nice.. and nice to see you back, however briefly, Leisha.
>
> > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year, I
> > > went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
> > > was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
> > > writingHaiku, and found a couple that I had written... and had almost
> > > forgotten:
>
> > >http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/04b12612e6b84d2c
>
> > > Sandy makes me think of ahaiku, though unfinished.
>
> > > Bluebird
> > > on white snow
> > > shivers her timbers.
>
> > > -Will Dockery
>
> > > and
>
> > >http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/83ca63c73f6fba74
>
> > > Iron Butterfly
> > > comes to mind
> > > 1970s breeze.
>
> > > -Will Dockery
>
> > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list was
> > never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>
> I wonder what was up with that?
>

I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."

> So far I've
> > found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and 11 possible new
> > poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll appreciate hearing
> > about it as well.
>
> Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> interesting.
>

I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on
my list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie
between new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone.
It looks like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier
claim ("I wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time
period"); and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days
ago, even to extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim
(while giving hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll
fight.



> > --
> > > T.O.T.M. (Theatre Of The Mind):
> > > * Brian Vaughan: Synthesizers, guitar, loopers, a lot of various
> > > effects, software workstation, sound engineering.
> > > * Brian Fowler: Guitar, bass, theremin, percussion, drums, violin,
> > > mandolin, rhodes piano, lyrics & vocals, sound engineering.
> > > * Will Dockery: Resident space poet, lyrics & vocal performances.
>
> http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/pages/TOTM-Theatre-Of-The-Mi...
>
> The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas:
>
> http://www.online-literature.com/dumas/cristo/
>
> --
> --
> "Shadowville Speedway" CD on Artemis Records:http://www.artemisrecords.net/dockeryconley.html

[Will Dockery]

On Oct 1, 10:40 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Oct 1, 9:08 pm, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Oct 1, 7:54 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> > On Sep 29, 10:05 am, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> Leisha <***@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
> > > > >"Bohgosity BumaskiL" wrote:
>
> > > > >Haikuare the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
> > > > > > I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
> > > > > > sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
> > > > > > important for me than grammar.
>
> > > > > > This is not a hai-
> > > > > > ku, because it fails to in-
> > > > > > dicate a season.
> > > > > > _______http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/Orchard_Farmerisahaiku.
>
> > > > > Cups of pinot noir.
> > > > > Firelight, full moon, rich earth.
> > > > > September harvest.
>
> > > > > Leisha
>
> > > > Nice.. and nice to see you back, however briefly, Leisha.
>
> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year, I
> > > > went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
> > > > was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
> > > > writingHaiku, and found a couple that I had written... and had almost
> > > > forgotten:
>
> > > >http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/04b12612e6b84d2c
>
> > > > Sandy makes me think of ahaiku, though unfinished.
>
> > > > Bluebird
> > > > on white snow
> > > > shivers her timbers.
>
> > > > -Will Dockery
>
> > > > and
>
> > > >http://groups.google.com.af/group/alt.poetry/msg/83ca63c73f6fba74
>
> > > > Iron Butterfly
> > > > comes to mind
> > > > 1970s breeze.
>
> > > > -Will Dockery
>
> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list was
> > > never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>
> > I wonder what was up with that?
>
> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think

Hmmm... haven't thought of Houstman in a while. Wonder if he's still
holding court in the Beatles newsgroup, which I also haven't made it
back to in some weeks, now.

Think I'll go have a gander... heh.

> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>
> > So far I've
> > > found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and 11 possible new
> > > poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll appreciate hearing
> > > about it as well.
>
> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> > interesting.
>
> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began.

Excellent, I may get back to that one, as well, as I wanted to link to
my comments & critiques some of those poems from those titles, as
well.

Time permitting... *hello Matt*!

I'd like to work on
> my list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie
> between new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone.
> It looks like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier
> claim ("I wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time
> period"); and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days
> ago, even to extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim
> (while giving hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll
> fight.

And in the end, everyone wins, since we'll have easy access to all
that wonderful Karla Rogers poetry... old and new!

--
"I know that my true friend will appear after my death, and my
sweetheart died before I was born." -Tanaka Katsumi (via Harlan
Ellison)
"House of Ghosts" / T.O.T.M. (Theatre of the Mind)
http://www.myspace.com/music/t-o-t-m-6002603/songs/house-of-ghosts-37942333

> > --
> > > > T.O.T.M. (Theatre Of The Mind):
> > > > * Brian Vaughan: Synthesizers, guitar, loopers, a lot of various
> > > > effects, software workstation, sound engineering.
> > > > * Brian Fowler: Guitar, bass, theremin, percussion, drums, violin,
> > > > mandolin, rhodes piano, lyrics & vocals, sound engineering.
> > > > * Will Dockery: Resident space poet, lyrics & vocal performances.
>
> >http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/pages/TOTM-Theatre-Of-The-Mi...
>
> > The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas:
>
> >http://www.online-literature.com/dumas/cristo/
>
> > --
> > --
> > "Shadowville Speedway" CD on Artemis Records:

http://www.artemisrecords.net/dockeryconley.html

[Barbara's Cat]

Goober Dance said:

> Goober Dockery said:
>
> > Goober Dance said:
> >
> > > Goober Dockery said:
> > >
> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year, I
> > > > went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
> > > > was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
> > > > writingHaiku
> > > >
> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
> > >
> > >
> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list was
> > > never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
> > >
> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
> >
> >
> > I wonder what was up with that?
>
>
> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>
>
> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and 11 possible
> > > new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll appreciate hearing about
> > > it as well.
> >
> >
> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> > interesting.
>
>
> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on
> my list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie
> between new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone.
> It looks like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier
> claim ("I wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time
> period"); and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days
> ago, even to extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim
> (while giving hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll
> fight.


You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.

--
Cm~

"Revenge... is like a rolling stone,
which, when a man hath forced up
a hill, will return upon him with
a greater violence, and break those
bones whose sinews gave it motion."
- Albert Schweitzer

[Will Dockery]

Barbara's Cat said:
>George Dance wrote:
>>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > > > On the subject of Haiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year, I
> > > > > went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to locate) &
> > > > > was reminded that they were from a time pretty much everyone here were
> > > > > writing Haiku
>
> > > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> > > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> > > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list was
> > > > never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> > > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> > > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> > > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>
> > > I wonder what was up with that?
>
> > I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
> > it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>
> > > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and 11 possible
> > > > new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll appreciate hearing about
> > > > it as well.
>
> > > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> > > interesting.
>
> > I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> > the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on
> > my list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie
> > between new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone.
> > It looks like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier
> > claim ("I wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time
> > period"); and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days
> > ago, even to extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim
> > (while giving hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll
> > fight.
>
> pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.

You sound paranoid, Barbie.

> "Revenge... is like a rolling stone,
>  which, when a man hath forced up
>  a hill, will return upon him with
>  a greater violence, and break those
>  bones whose sinews gave it motion."
>                  - Albert Schweitzer

Nice quote... and you seem even more paranoid after posting that,
Barbie.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery (no charge!):
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Meat Plow]

On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 00:55:23 -0400, Barbara's Cat wrote:

> Goober Dance said:
>
>> Goober Dockery said:
>>
>> > Goober Dance said:
>> >
>> > > Goober Dockery said:
>> > >
>> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year,
>> > > > I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to
>> > > > locate) & was reminded that they were from a time pretty much
>> > > > everyone here were writingHaiku
>> > > >
>> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
>> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list
>> > > was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
>> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>> > >
>> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
>> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>> >
>> >
>> > I wonder what was up with that?
>>
>>
>> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
>> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>>
>>
>> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and
>> > > 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll
>> > > appreciate hearing about it as well.
>> >
>> >
>> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
>> > interesting.
>>
>>
>> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
>> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
>> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
>> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
>> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
>> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
>> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
>> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
>> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>
>
> You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.

I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle
Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.

Tweedledum and Tweedledee
Agreed to have a battle;
For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
As black as a tar-barrel;
Which frightened both the heroes so,
They quite forgot their quarrel

author unknown to me.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

[Will Dockery]

On Oct 2, 6:58 am, Meat Plow <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year,
> >> > > > I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to
> >> > > > locate) & was reminded that they were from a time pretty much
> >> > > > everyone here were writingHaiku
>
> >> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> >> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> >> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list
> >> > > was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> >> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> >> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> >> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>
> >> > I wonder what was up with that?
>
> >> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
> >> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>
> >> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and
> >> > > 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll
> >> > > appreciate hearing about it as well.
>
> >> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> >> > interesting.
>
> >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> >> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
> >> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
> >> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
> >> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
> >> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
> >> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
> >> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
> >> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>
> I wish I could recommend something 'useful'

Since you never seem to manage to do anything "useful" yourself, MP,
that doesn't seem so likely, y'know?

> Tweedledum and Tweedledee
>     Agreed to have a battle;
> For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
>     Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
>     As black as a tar-barrel;
> Which frightened both the heroes so,
>     They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> author unknown to me.

Bob Dylan, actually:

http://www.bobdylan.com/#/songs/tweedle-dee-tweedle-dum

Tweedle Dee & Tweedle Dum
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee
They’re throwing knives into the tree
Two big bags of dead man’s bones
Got their noses to the grindstones

Living in the Land of Nod
Trustin’ their fate to the Hands of God
They pass by so silently
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee

Well, they’re going to the country, they’re gonna retire
They’re taking a street car named Desire
Looking in the window at the pecan pie
Lot of things they’d like they would never buy

Neither one gonna turn and run
They’re making a voyage to the sun
“His Master’s voice is calling me”
Says Tweedle-dee Dum to Tweedle-dee Dee

Tweedle-dee Dee and Tweedle-dee Dum
All that and more and then some
They walk among the stately trees
They know the secrets of the breeze

Tweedle-dee Dum said to Tweedle-dee Dee
“Your presence is obnoxious to me”
They’re like babies sittin’ on a woman’s knee
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee

Well, the rain beating down on my window pane
I got love for you and it’s all in vain
Brains in the pot, they’re beginning to boil
They’re dripping with garlic and olive oil

Tweedle-dee Dee—he’s on his hands and his knees
Saying, “Throw me somethin’, Mister, please”
“What’s good for you is good for me”
Says Tweedle-dee Dum to Tweedle-dee Dee

Well, they’re living in a happy harmony
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee
They’re one day older and a dollar short
They’ve got a parade permit and a police escort

They’re lying low and they’re makin’ hay
They seem determined to go all the way
They run a brick-and-tile company
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee

Well a childish dream is a deathless need
And a noble truth is a sacred dream
My pretty baby, she’s lookin’ around
She’s wearin’ a multi-thousand dollar gown

Tweedle-dee Dee is a lowdown, sorry old man
Tweedle-dee Dum, he’ll stab you where you stand
“I’ve had too much of your company,”
Says Tweedle-dee Dum to Tweedle-dee Dee

-Bob Dylan

Copyright © 2001 by Special Rider Music

> --
> Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

--
Egatoid!
The track that set the whole Shadowville All-Stars thing in motion,
"Mirror Twins" by Will Dockery (words) & Brian Fowler (music):
http://www.myspace.com/music/will-dockery-shadowville-all-stars-2953674/songs/mirror-twins-27425017

[Barbara's Cat]

Meat Plow said:

> Barbara's Cat wrote:
>
> > Goober Dance said:
> >
> >> Goober Dockery said:
> >>
> >> > Goober Dance said:
> >> >
> >> > > Goober Dockery said:
> >> > >
> >> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year,
> >> > > > I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to
> >> > > > locate) & was reminded that they were from a time pretty much
> >> > > > everyone here were writingHaiku
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> >> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list
> >> > > was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> >> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
> >> > >
> >> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> >> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I wonder what was up with that?
> >>
> >>
> >> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
> >> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
> >>
> >>
> >> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and
> >> > > 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll
> >> > > appreciate hearing about it as well.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> >> > interesting.
> >>
> >>
> >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> >> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
> >> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
> >> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
> >> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
> >> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
> >> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
> >> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
> >> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
> >
> >
> > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.
>
>
> I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle
> Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.


My first recommendation would be "Get some professional help."
Next, "Get a life."


> Tweedledum and Tweedledee
> Agreed to have a battle;
> For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
> Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
> As black as a tar-barrel;
> Which frightened both the heroes so,
> They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> author unknown to me.


Nor anyone else. It's just an authorless rhyme passed down through the ages.
I notice unsurprisingly Goober Dockery stupidly believes Bob Dylan wrote it.

--
Cm~

"Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold."
- Mark Twain

[mat1t3]

On Oct 2, 7:25 pm, Barbara's Cat <***@XSPAMscientist.com> wrote:
> Meat Plow said:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Barbara's Cat wrote:
>
> > > Goober Dance said:
>
> > >> Goober Dockery said:
>
> > >> > Goober Dance said:
>
> > >> > > Goober Dockery said:
>
> > >> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year,
> > >> > > > I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to
> > >> > > > locate) & was reminded that they were from a time pretty much
> > >> > > > everyone here were writingHaiku
>
> > >> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> > >> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> > >> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list
> > >> > > was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> > >> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> > >> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> > >> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>
> > >> > I wonder what was up with that?
>
> > >> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
> > >> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>
> > >> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and
> > >> > > 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll
> > >> > > appreciate hearing about it as well.
>
> > >> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> > >> > interesting.
>
> > >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> > >> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
> > >> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
> > >> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
> > >> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
> > >> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
> > >> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
> > >> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
> > >> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>
> > > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.
>
> > I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle
> > Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.
>
> My first recommendation would be "Get some professional help."
> Next, "Get a life."
>
> > Tweedledum and Tweedledee
> >     Agreed to have a battle;
> > For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
> >     Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> > Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
> >     As black as a tar-barrel;
> > Which frightened both the heroes so,
> >     They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> > author unknown to me.
>
> Nor anyone else. It's just an authorless rhyme passed down through the ages.
> I notice unsurprisingly Goober Dockery stupidly believes Bob Dylan wrote it.
>
> --
> Cm~
>
> "Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold."
>                                                        - Mark Twain

look at this:

the meat cat prance vs. the duck dunce dance.

aapc is in full swing again!

: )

[George Dance]

On Oct 2, 11:30 pm, mat1t3 <***@cox.net> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 7:25 pm, Barbara's Cat <***@XSPAMscientist.com> wrote:
>
> > Meat Plow pissed:
>
> > > Barbara's Cat pissed: :
>
> > > > Dance said:
>
> > > >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> > > >> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
> > > >> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
> > > >> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
> > > >> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
> > > >> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
> > > >> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
> > > >> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
> > > >> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>
> > > > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.
>
> > > I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle
> > > Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.
>
> > My first recommendation would be "Get some professional help."
> > Next, "Get a life."
>
> > > Tweedledum and Tweedledee
> > >     Agreed to have a battle;
> > > For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
> > >     Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> > > Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
> > >     As black as a tar-barrel;
> > > Which frightened both the heroes so,
> > >     They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> > > author unknown to me.
>
> > Nor anyone else. It's just an authorless rhyme passed down through the ages.
> > I notice unsurprisingly Goober Dockery stupidly believes Bob Dylan wrote it.
>
> look at this:

Shit & piss!

> the meat cat prance vs. the duck dunce dance.

as told by Mistter Squittypants . . .


>
> aapc is in full swing again!
>

I notice this has been copied out to a lot of other groups, the
readers of which will have no clue what any of the above is about. So
here is some context; some background on the 'list', and an updae on
my search results. '

----- <forward> ----------------------------
From: George Dance <***@yahoo.ca>
Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments
Subject: Re: Karla Rogers poetry list (2009-2010)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 14:39:26 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID:
<27f8daf7-018f-4da6-945b-***@j18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Sep 20, 5:08 pm, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Karla wrote:
[snip]
> Nice list, Karla...

Yes, it's a very nice list. However, since Karla has insisted that
she
posted it in the interests of "accuracy" and being truthful, we
should note that it is not an accurate list, and she is not being
truthful in posting it as if it were one.

For one thing, whatever reason, she has left at least seven of her
reposted poems off her list of "Reposts."

For another, considering that her list is meant to "refute" the
following statement of mine posted to AAPC --

"While Karla posted quite a bit of poetry here in the past year-and-
a-
half, not that much of it was new. Most of it was revised or simply
recycled from her 20th century ouevre."
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/be7b2621b...

-- let's note that she's padded her "New poems" list by including
three poems that were never posted here at all.
Correcting those inaccuracies of hers gives 11 "New poems" and 14
"Reposts", as follows:

New poems written & posted between Feb./09-Aug./10:

03/02/09 (Men Prefer) Cast Iron Skillets
06/13/09 On Mariana in the Glass
10/03/09 In the Clouds
11/23/09 Sonnet
01/09/10 Grail
01/30/10 Haiku (Two cats on on a box)
01/31/10 Haiku (ping--)
01/31/10 Raisin Ether
02/15/10 Blue Quintet
02/26/10 Obpoem (Moon Moan)
03/14/10 Haiku (winter sun)

Reposts during Feb./09-Aug./10:

02/06/09 (05/06/98) I Am a Video *
05/10/09 (05/09/98) Lily of Lightfields
05/31/09 (07/14/01) Lot's Wife
06/08/09 (05/02/99) Trick of Light
06/10/09 (09/18/98) I'm Sorry Sister Alice *
06/14/09 (09/23/07) We are everything *
06/14/09 (03/31/99) Fast Food *
07/23/09 (08/09/98) Midwest Girl
08/22/09 (11/02/98) Despite *
09/30/09 (07/12/99) Twins
01/17/10 (06/22/98) Flamenco Nights
03/13/10 (03/02/09) Men Prefer (Cast Iron Skillets) *
03/18/10 (05/26/99) Under the Patina of Peace *
03/20/10 (06/27/98) New Values AAPC

As you can see, "most" of what Karla posted in that period was simply
revised or recycled, just as I claimed (though I should add, in the
interests of
"accuracy": not just from her 20th century work, as I incorrectly
stated earlier).

</fwd>

> :  )

[Will Dockery]

On Oct 3, 12:43 am, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> I notice this has been copied out to a lot of other groups, the
> readers of which will have no clue what any of the above is about. So
> here is some context; some background on the 'list', and an updae on
> my search results. '
>
> ----- <forward> ----------------------------
> From: George Dance <***@yahoo.ca>
> Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments
> Subject: Re: Karla Rogers poetry list (2009-2010)
> Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 14:39:26 -0700 (PDT)
> Message-ID:
> <27f8daf7-018f-4da6-945b-***@j18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
>
> On Sep 20, 5:08 pm, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Karla wrote:
> [snip]
> > Nice list, Karla...
>
> Yes, it's a very nice list. However, since Karla has insisted that
> she
> posted it in the interests of "accuracy" and being truthful, we
> should note that it is not an accurate list, and she is not being
> truthful in posting it as if it were one.
>
> For one thing, whatever reason, she has left at least seven of her
> reposted poems off her list of "Reposts."
>
> For  another, considering that her list is meant to "refute" the
> following statement of mine posted to AAPC --
>
> "While Karla posted quite a bit of poetry here in the past year-and-
> a-
> half, not that much of it was new. Most of it was revised or simply
> recycled from her 20th century ouevre."http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/be7b2621b...
>
> -- let's note that she's padded her "New poems" list by including
> three poems that were never posted here at all.
> Correcting those inaccuracies of hers gives 11 "New poems" and 14
> "Reposts", as follows:
>
> New poems written & posted between Feb./09-Aug./10:
>
> 03/02/09        (Men Prefer) Cast Iron Skillets
> 06/13/09        On Mariana in the Glass
> 10/03/09        In the Clouds
> 11/23/09        Sonnet
> 01/09/10        Grail
> 01/30/10        Haiku (Two cats on on a box)
> 01/31/10        Haiku (ping--)
> 01/31/10        Raisin Ether
> 02/15/10        Blue Quintet
> 02/26/10        Obpoem (Moon Moan)
> 03/14/10        Haiku (winter sun)
>
> Reposts during Feb./09-Aug./10:
>
> 02/06/09 (05/06/98) I Am a Video *
> 05/10/09 (05/09/98) Lily of Lightfields
> 05/31/09 (07/14/01) Lot's Wife
> 06/08/09 (05/02/99) Trick of Light
> 06/10/09 (09/18/98) I'm Sorry Sister Alice *
> 06/14/09 (09/23/07) We are everything *
> 06/14/09 (03/31/99) Fast Food *
> 07/23/09 (08/09/98) Midwest Girl
> 08/22/09 (11/02/98) Despite *
> 09/30/09 (07/12/99) Twins
> 01/17/10 (06/22/98) Flamenco Nights
> 03/13/10 (03/02/09) Men Prefer (Cast Iron Skillets) *
> 03/18/10 (05/26/99) Under the Patina of Peace *
> 03/20/10 (06/27/98) New Values AAPC
>
> As you can see, "most" of what Karla posted in that period was simply
> revised or recycled, just as I claimed (though I should add, in the
> interests of
> "accuracy": not just from her 20th century work, as I incorrectly
> stated earlier).
>
> </fwd>> :

Interesting.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[George Dance]

On Oct 3, 11:56 am, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 3, 12:43 am, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I notice this has been copied out to a lot of other groups, the
> > readers of which will have no clue what any of the above is about. So
> > here is some context; some background on the 'list', and an updae on
> > my search results. '
>
> > ----- <forward> ----------------------------
> > From: George Dance <***@yahoo.ca>
> > Newsgroups: alt.arts.poetry.comments
> > Subject: Re: Karla Rogers poetry list (2009-2010)
> > Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 14:39:26 -0700 (PDT)
> > Message-ID:
> > <27f8daf7-018f-4da6-945b-***@j18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
>
> > On Sep 20, 5:08 pm, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Karla wrote:
> > [snip]
> > > Nice list, Karla...
>
> > Yes, it's a very nice list. However, since Karla has insisted that
> > she
> > posted it in the interests of "accuracy" and being truthful, we
> > should note that it is not an accurate list, and she is not being
> > truthful in posting it as if it were one.
>
> > For one thing, whatever reason, she has left at least seven of her
> > reposted poems off her list of "Reposts."
>
> > For  another, considering that her list is meant to "refute" the
> > following statement of mine posted to AAPC --
>
> > "While Karla posted quite a bit of poetry here in the past year-and-
> > a-
> > half, not that much of it was new. Most of it was revised or simply
> > recycled from her 20th century ouevre."http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/be7b2621b...
>
> > -- let's note that she's padded her "New poems" list by including
> > three poems that were never posted here at all.
> > Correcting those inaccuracies of hers gives 11 "New poems" and 14
> > "Reposts", as follows:
>
> > New poems written & posted between Feb./09-Aug./10:
>
> > 03/02/09        (Men Prefer) Cast Iron Skillets
> > 06/13/09        On Mariana in the Glass
> > 10/03/09        In the Clouds
> > 11/23/09        Sonnet
> > 01/09/10        Grail
> > 01/30/10        Haiku (Two cats on on a box)
> > 01/31/10        Haiku (ping--)
> > 01/31/10        Raisin Ether
> > 02/15/10        Blue Quintet
> > 02/26/10        Obpoem (Moon Moan)
> > 03/14/10        Haiku (winter sun)
>
> > Reposts during Feb./09-Aug./10:
>
> > 02/06/09 (05/06/98) I Am a Video *
> > 05/10/09 (05/09/98) Lily of Lightfields
> > 05/31/09 (07/14/01) Lot's Wife
> > 06/08/09 (05/02/99) Trick of Light
> > 06/10/09 (09/18/98) I'm Sorry Sister Alice *
> > 06/14/09 (09/23/07) We are everything *
> > 06/14/09 (03/31/99) Fast Food *
> > 07/23/09 (08/09/98) Midwest Girl
> > 08/22/09 (11/02/98) Despite *
> > 09/30/09 (07/12/99) Twins
> > 01/17/10 (06/22/98) Flamenco Nights
> > 03/13/10 (03/02/09) Men Prefer (Cast Iron Skillets) *
> > 03/18/10 (05/26/99) Under the Patina of Peace *
> > 03/20/10 (06/27/98) New Values AAPC
>
> > As you can see, "most" of what Karla posted in that period was simply
> > revised or recycled, just as I claimed (though I should add, in the
> > interests of
> > "accuracy": not just from her 20th century work, as I incorrectly
> > stated earlier).
>
> > </fwd>> :
>
> Interesting.
>


I thought so, and it looked like a lot of people wouldn't get to even
see it; almost as soon as it was posted into this thread, the nonsense
being posted down in this part of it began, burying the facts about
Karla's allegation under a heap of trash posts.

But I intend to keep reminding the thread's readers of them, and (with
help from readers like you), a few will actually get to learn about
them.








> --
> Music & poetry of Will Dockery:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Will Dockery]

On Oct 3, 2:40 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Oct 3, 11:56 am, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Oct 3, 12:43 am, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:

<snip for focus>

> > > "While Karla posted quite a bit of poetry here in the past year-and-
> > > a-
> > > half, not that much of it was new. Most of it was revised or simply
> > > recycled from her 20th century ouevre."http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/be7b2621b...
>
> > > -- let's note that she's padded her "New poems" list by including
> > > three poems that were never posted here at all.
> > > Correcting those inaccuracies of hers gives 11 "New poems" and 14
> > > "Reposts", as follows:
>
> > > New poems written & posted between Feb./09-Aug./10:
>
> > > 03/02/09        (Men Prefer) Cast Iron Skillets
> > > 06/13/09        On Mariana in the Glass
> > > 10/03/09        In the Clouds
> > > 11/23/09        Sonnet
> > > 01/09/10        Grail
> > > 01/30/10        Haiku (Two cats on on a box)
> > > 01/31/10        Haiku (ping--)
> > > 01/31/10        Raisin Ether
> > > 02/15/10        Blue Quintet
> > > 02/26/10        Obpoem (Moon Moan)
> > > 03/14/10        Haiku (winter sun)
>
> > > Reposts during Feb./09-Aug./10:
>
> > > 02/06/09 (05/06/98) I Am a Video *
> > > 05/10/09 (05/09/98) Lily of Lightfields
> > > 05/31/09 (07/14/01) Lot's Wife
> > > 06/08/09 (05/02/99) Trick of Light
> > > 06/10/09 (09/18/98) I'm Sorry Sister Alice *
> > > 06/14/09 (09/23/07) We are everything *
> > > 06/14/09 (03/31/99) Fast Food *
> > > 07/23/09 (08/09/98) Midwest Girl
> > > 08/22/09 (11/02/98) Despite *
> > > 09/30/09 (07/12/99) Twins
> > > 01/17/10 (06/22/98) Flamenco Nights
> > > 03/13/10 (03/02/09) Men Prefer (Cast Iron Skillets) *
> > > 03/18/10 (05/26/99) Under the Patina of Peace *
> > > 03/20/10 (06/27/98) New Values AAPC
>
> > > As you can see, "most" of what Karla posted in that period was simply
> > > revised or recycled, just as I claimed (though I should add, in the
> > > interests of
> > > "accuracy": not just from her 20th century work, as I incorrectly
> > > stated earlier).
>
> > > </fwd>> :
>
> > Interesting.
>
> I thought so, and it looked like a lot of people wouldn't get to even
> see it; almost as soon as it was posted into this thread, the nonsense
> being posted down in this part of it began, burying the facts about
> Karla's allegation under a heap of trash posts.
>
> But I intend to keep reminding the thread's readers of them, and (with
> help from readers like you), a few will actually get to learn about
> them.

Links & commments (new & old), this could be interesting & educational
for fans & new readers of the poetry of Karla Rogers, as well as for
Karla herself, since one of the main reasons for writing poetry is to
find & entertain an audience.

While I have a bit of time, I'll see if I can begin expanding one of
the poems listed... "Trick Of Light" is one that I (& others) went
into great detail exploring, so that's probably a good place to
start...

--
Egatoid!
The track that set the whole Shadowville All-Stars thing in motion,
"Mirror Twins" by Will Dockery (words) & Brian Fowler (music).
http://www.myspace.com/music/will-dockery-shadowville-all-stars-2953674/songs/mirror-twins-27425017

> --
> > Music & poetry of Will Dockery:

http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[mat1t3]

On Oct 2, 9:43 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 11:30 pm, mat1t3 <***@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 2, 7:25 pm, Barbara's Cat <***@XSPAMscientist.com> wrote:
>
> > > Meat Plow pissed:
>
> > > > Barbara's Cat pissed: :
>
> > > > > Dance said:
>
> > > > >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> > > > >> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
> > > > >> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
> > > > >> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
> > > > >> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
> > > > >> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
> > > > >> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
> > > > >> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
> > > > >> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>
> > > > > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.
>
> > > > I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle
> > > > Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.
>
> > > My first recommendation would be "Get some professional help."
> > > Next, "Get a life."
>
> > > > Tweedledum and Tweedledee
> > > >     Agreed to have a battle;
> > > > For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
> > > >     Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> > > > Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
> > > >     As black as a tar-barrel;
> > > > Which frightened both the heroes so,
> > > >     They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> > > > author unknown to me.
>
> > > Nor anyone else. It's just an authorless rhyme passed down through the ages.
> > > I notice unsurprisingly Goober Dockery stupidly believes Bob Dylan wrote it.
>
> > look at this:
>
> Shit & piss!

my goodness, george! you seem as though you're
upset about something. i was trying to compliment
you on your dancing skills. is it really so hard to
accept a compliment? i know you get beat up
around here a lot. and, i know that must hurt.
but, you know that your dunce dance is quite
exceptional, don't you? and, when you're partnered
up with the duck man, things really swing around here.

by all means: keep swingin'

: )
>
> > the meat cat prance vs. the duck dunce dance.
>
> as told by Mistter Squittypants . . .

mister squittypants loves the duck dunce dance!

please continue, gentlemen.

>
>
>
> > aapc is in full swing again!
>
> I notice this <snip mindless drivel>

[George Dance]

On Oct 3, 2:35 pm, mat1t3 <***@cox.net> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 9:43 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > On Oct 2, 11:30 pm, mat1t3 <***@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 2, 7:25 pm, Barbara's Cat <***@XSPAMscientist.com> pissed:
> > > > Meat Plow pissed:
> > > > > Barbara's Cat pissed: :
>
>
> > > look at this:
>
> > Shit & piss!
>
> my goodness, george!  you seem as though you're
> upset about something.  i was trying to compliment
> you on your dancing skills.  is it really so hard to
> accept a compliment?  i know you get beat up
> around here a lot.  and, i know that must hurt.
> but, you know that your dunce dance is quite
> exceptional, don't you?  and, when you're partnered
> up with the duck man, things really swing around here.
>
> by all means:  keep swingin'
>
> :  )

Speaking of misunderstanding what someone else has posted (and we
were, last week); in this case I was only rhyming your lines, to bring
out verse implicit in your writing.

Here, I thought of another line in the interim, which should make it
clearer as it finishes the first stanza. (But I'll write that in at
the end of the post, where it'll be more effective.)

>
> > > the meat cat prance vs. the duck dunce dance.
>
> > as told by Mistter Squittypants . . .
>
> mister squittypants loves the duck dunce dance!
>
> please continue, gentlemen.
>

AAPC

Look at this:
Shit and piss!
For some it is eternal bliss;
The meat cat prance
And the duck dunce dance
As told by Mr. Squittypants.

- Matt E. and George Dance


>
> > > aapc is in full swing again!
>

[Meat Plow]

On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 20:30:17 -0700, mat1t3 wrote:

> On Oct 2, 7:25 pm, Barbara's Cat <***@XSPAMscientist.com> wrote:
>> Meat Plow said:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Barbara's Cat wrote:
>>
>> > > Goober Dance said:
>>
>> > >> Goober Dockery said:
>>
>> > >> > Goober Dance said:
>>
>> > >> > > Goober Dockery said:
>>
>> > >> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this
>> > >> > > > year, I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty
>> > >> > > > hard to locate) & was reminded that they were from a time
>> > >> > > > pretty much everyone here were writingHaiku
>>
>> > >> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>>
>> > >> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've
>> > >> > > found all three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on
>> > >> > > Karla's list was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one
>> > >> > > of those that I particularly enjoyed reading (but on a
>> > >> > > separate thread).
>>
>> > >> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems
>> > >> > > that Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>>
>> > >> > I wonder what was up with that?
>>
>> > >> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I
>> > >> think it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>>
>> > >> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems
>> > >> > > (and 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of
>> > >> > > those, I'll appreciate hearing about it as well.
>>
>> > >> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here,
>> > >> > that's interesting.
>>
>> > >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think
>> > >> under the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to
>> > >> work on my list a bit longer, though, since the present situation
>> > >> -- a tie between new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome
>> > >> for anyone. It looks like Karla won't settle for anything less
>> > >> than her earlier claim ("I wrote & posted twice as many new poems
>> > >> as old in that time period"); and while I was quite willing to
>> > >> settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to extent of apologizing to her
>> > >> for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving hers a pass), she wanted
>> > >> to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>>
>> > > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed
>> > > pathetic.
>>
>> > I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and
>> > Tweedle Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.
>>
>> My first recommendation would be "Get some professional help." Next,
>> "Get a life."
>>
>> > Tweedledum and Tweedledee
>> >     Agreed to have a battle;
>> > For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
>> >     Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
>> > Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
>> >     As black as a tar-barrel;
>> > Which frightened both the heroes so,
>> >     They quite forgot their quarrel
>>
>> > author unknown to me.
>>
>> Nor anyone else. It's just an authorless rhyme passed down through the
>> ages. I notice unsurprisingly Goober Dockery stupidly believes Bob
>> Dylan wrote it.
>>
>> --
>> Cm~
>>
>> "Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold."
>>                                                        -
>>                                                        Mark
>>                                                        Twain
>
> look at this:
>
> the meat cat prance vs. the duck dunce dance.
>
> aapc is in full swing again!
>
> : )

Did you miss us :) I really got tired of those two lower life forms and
their banal banter hence the ebbing of my aap, aapc contributions. I
would likely find intellectual 'sparring' with a chimpanzee who could
sign language exponentially more rewarding than the narrow, thoughtless
responses from Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle Dumb.




--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

[Meat Plow]

On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 22:25:05 -0400, Barbara's Cat wrote:

> Meat Plow said:
>
>> Barbara's Cat wrote:
>>
>> > Goober Dance said:
>> >
>> >> Goober Dockery said:
>> >>
>> >> > Goober Dance said:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Goober Dockery said:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this
>> >> > > > year, I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty
>> >> > > > hard to locate) & was reminded that they were from a time
>> >> > > > pretty much everyone here were writingHaiku
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found
>> >> > > all three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's
>> >> > > list was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those
>> >> > > that I particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>> >> > >
>> >> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems
>> >> > > that Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I wonder what was up with that?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I
>> >> think it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems
>> >> > > (and 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of
>> >> > > those, I'll appreciate hearing about it as well.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here,
>> >> > that's interesting.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think
>> >> under the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to
>> >> work on my list a bit longer, though, since the present situation --
>> >> a tie between new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for
>> >> anyone. It looks like Karla won't settle for anything less than her
>> >> earlier claim ("I wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in
>> >> that time period"); and while I was quite willing to settle for a
>> >> tie 10 days ago, even to extent of apologizing to her for my
>> >> "inaccurate" claim (while giving hers a pass), she wanted to fight
>> >> instead -- so we'll fight.
>> >
>> >
>> > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.
>>
>>
>> I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and
>> Tweedle Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.
>
>
> My first recommendation would be "Get some professional help." Next,
> "Get a life."

Unfortunately those suggestions have a long history of falling upon deaf
ears :(

>
>> Tweedledum and Tweedledee
>> Agreed to have a battle;
>> For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
>> Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
>> Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
>> As black as a tar-barrel;
>> Which frightened both the heroes so,
>> They quite forgot their quarrel
>>
>> author unknown to me.
>
>
> Nor anyone else. It's just an authorless rhyme passed down through the
> ages. I notice unsurprisingly Goober Dockery stupidly believes Bob Dylan
> wrote it.

Really? Surely you jest :) Trying not to read 99.9% of his dreck I missed
that one.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

[Leisha]

On Oct 2, 3:58 am, Meat Plow <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 00:55:23 -0400, Barbara's Cat wrote:
> > Goober Dance said:
>
> >> Goober Dockery said:
>
> >> > Goober Dance said:
>
> >> > > Goober Dockery said:
>
> >> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year,
> >> > > > I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to
> >> > > > locate) & was reminded that they were from a time pretty much
> >> > > > everyone here were writingHaiku
>
> >> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> >> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> >> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list
> >> > > was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> >> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> >> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> >> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>
> >> > I wonder what was up with that?
>
> >> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
> >> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>
> >> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and
> >> > > 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll
> >> > > appreciate hearing about it as well.
>
> >> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> >> > interesting.
>
> >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> >> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
> >> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
> >> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
> >> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
> >> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
> >> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
> >> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
> >> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>
> > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.
>
> I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle
> Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.
>
> Tweedledum and Tweedledee
>     Agreed to have a battle;
> For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
>     Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
>     As black as a tar-barrel;
> Which frightened both the heroes so,
>     They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> author unknown to me.
>
> --
> Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

You must be joking; you know it's Lewis Carroll, of course:
http://www.sabian.org/Alice/lgchap04.htm

This page has my favorite of his, "You Are Old, Father William."
http://www.sabian.org/alicech5.htm

Leisha

[George Dance]

On Oct 12, 11:39 am, Leisha <***@decisionresearch.org> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 3:58 am, Meat Plow <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 00:55:23 -0400, Barbara's Cat wrote:
> > > Goober Dance said:
>
> > >> Goober Dockery said:
>
> > >> > Goober Dance said:
>
> > >> > > Goober Dockery said:
>
> > >> > > > On the subject ofHaiku, andKarla'ssveral from earlier this year,
> > >> > > > I went back looking for those (untitlted & thus pretty hard to
> > >> > > > locate) & was reminded that they were from a time pretty much
> > >> > > > everyone here were writingHaiku
>
> > >> > > > Meanwhile, The Search continues...
>
> > >> > > I didn't realize you were still searching for those. I've found all
> > >> > > three that were posted to AAPC. (One of the four on Karla's list
> > >> > > was never posted here.) I think I'll repost one of those that I
> > >> > > particularly enjoyed reading (but on a separate thread).
>
> > >> > > BTW, I'm conducting my own search, looking for reposted poems that
> > >> > > Karla, for whatever reason, didn't mention on her list.
>
> > >> > I wonder what was up with that?
>
> > >> I can never be sure with "Karla and others" (D. Houstman), but I think
> > >> it's clear that she had a higher priority than "accuracy."
>
> > >> > > So far I've found 4, bringing her total to 11 reposted poems (and
> > >> > > 11 possible new poems). So if you stumble onto any of those, I'll
> > >> > > appreciate hearing about it as well.
>
> > >> > Are you archiving those with titles or links somewhere here, that's
> > >> > interesting.
>
> > >> I will post a list, of titles and dates posted to aapc, I think under
> > >> the "Karla Rogers poetry list" header you began. I'd like to work on my
> > >> list a bit longer, though, since the present situation -- a tie between
> > >> new and resposted -- isn't a satisfactory outcome for anyone. It looks
> > >> like Karla won't settle for anything less than her earlier claim ("I
> > >> wrote & posted twice as many new poems as old in that time period");
> > >> and while I was quite willing to settle for a tie 10 days ago, even to
> > >> extent of apologizing to her for my "inaccurate" claim (while giving
> > >> hers a pass), she wanted to fight instead -- so we'll fight.
>
> > > You two goobers are pathetic, seriously mentally disturbed pathetic.
>
> > I wish I could recommend something 'useful' for Tweedle Dweeb and Tweedle
> > Dumb to do. But I'm not sure what that would be.
>
> > Tweedledum and Tweedledee
> >     Agreed to have a battle;
> > For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
> >     Had spoiled his nice new rattle.
> > Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
> >     As black as a tar-barrel;
> > Which frightened both the heroes so,
> >     They quite forgot their quarrel
>
> > author unknown to me.
>
> > --
> > Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
>
> You must be joking; you know it's Lewis Carroll, of course:http://www.sabian.org/Alice/lgchap04.htm


It doesn't sound as if Carroll wrote it -- I think it's a nursery
rhyme that he's just using. Notice how Alice refers to it: "... the
words of the old song kept ringing through her head like the ticking
of a clock, and she could hardly help saying them out loud:"

>
> This page has my favorite of his, "You Are Old, Father William."

http://www.sabian.org/alicech5.htm

I've always liked that one. I liked it even more when I discovered the
Southey poem that Carroll was parodying:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_can_you_tell_me_about_the_poem_'You_Are_Old_Father_William'_by_Lewis_Carroll



>
> Leisha

I dunno; I liked Carroll when I was a boy, but

[Will Dockery]

George Dance wrote:
>Cythera said:

<snip for focus>

> > People who see this page
>
> >http://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2010/03/fuji-san.html
>
> > might think "Fuji-san" is also for sale
>
> But they also see that they can make their own copy, on a drive or a
> printout, without paying anything:
>
> Fuji-san by George Dance is licensed under a Creative Commons
> Attribution-Share Alike 2.5 Canada License.
>
> ??? Do you really think I'm trying to trick anyone into buying "Betty"
> on Kindle by making them think fucking Fuji-san is on included? Now
> your stories about me are becoming not just 'inaccurate' and
> 'untruthful' (to use the current SP buzzwords) but ridiculous.

While looking for something else, I found the original "conversation"
between you, Stuart, Cythera, Karla & others, which will illuminate
this current "conversation" greatly. Here's the link, cached, since
the actual page seems dead and soon to vanish:

http://tinyurl.com/2a8ccaj

And some interesting excerpts that shed light on what really went on
back then, such as an early source for the Fuji-san / hat / snowcap
image:

Lafcadio Hearn had the idea that Fuji looked like a straw hat in
1898.

> "They supplied me with a pilgrim-staff, heavy blue tabi (that is to
> say, cleft-stockings, to used with sandals), a straw hat shaped like
> Fuji, and the rest of a pilgrim's outfit;--telling me to be ready to
> start with them at four o'clock in the morning."

>http://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/lh/fuji.html

It looks to me that, for 'Cythera and the others,' it depends on who
borrows, and/or from whom.

Fuji-san

In the flaming sun,
Fuji-san wears his
White-straw sugegasa.

-George Dance

so much snow
fuji-yama
white-sugar hat

-Cythera


George Dance wrote:
> >Cythera wrote:

> > > How is your poem substantively different from mine?
>
> > Mine mentions the sun; yours doesn't. Mine mentions the mt. by its
> > proper name; yours doesn't; mine mentions the conical straw hat and
> > gives its proper name (which I found myself using the link I posted
> > Feb. 10); yours doesn't (even though, it turns out, you'd seen the
> > same link).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conical_straw_hat

Then about 12 hours later I wrote the following and included this
> > wikipedia url:
> >
> > I thought the top of Fuji-yama looks like a conical hat. Children wear
> > them in Japan.

----
From Stuart Leichter (08.03.2010 - 21:35):

Back in '98 windshield_washer posted this revision of one of her
poems,
which she called icebergs:

tell me the icebergs of your life
the world below the waterline
emotions courtships bluebirds crows
concepts of justice definitions of sin
criterion of ethics visions of nobility

what is the tempo of your life
networks of friendships orders of time
and when you fall in love
how do you tell your beloved

I read it to an audience at one of my poetry performances, along with
some other poems which also had been posted at rec.arts.poems around
the
same time by other writers. I gave appropriate credit. My stated
purpose
was to introduce the online poetry group forum to active poets. After
(days or weeks, I don't remember), I told her or the group in general
that I'd performed the works in public. No one got abscesses on their
asses about it. No one at the reading asked me if I'd got permission
first - probably because it was the last thing that would have
occurred
to any of them.
----

On Mar 8, 1:07=A0pm, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
sneezuschristsupersnarl <***@cox.net> wrote:

> Of course, Dockery is going to try to come to George's
> rescue/defense

No, George doesn't need any more rescue/defense than others working
in
that form of poetry ("Borrowed Keyword" is one term) than others who
use the method, Houstman, Adam, et al do.

> by claiming Betty is borrowed from him. =A0

No "claim", I was the one who created the "Betty" character, and even
had my own poem about her (although I eventually changed her name
again, to a real person I know):

http://tinyurl.com/Betty-Poem

Betty & Her Pale Blue Hat by Will Dockery

There's more, but this wasn't exactly what I was looking for, which
was any indication that Cythera (or George) originally gave *any*
credit to Rain Shadow for being the originator of the ideas and images
in *both* their poems.

So far, I've seen none, at least none from the time the poems were
generated.

--
Poetry & Music by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[George Dance]

On Oct 13, 3:04 am, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> George Dance wrote:
> >Cythera said:
>
> <snip for focus>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > People who see this page
>
> > >http://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2010/03/fuji-san.html
>
> > > might think "Fuji-san" is also for sale
>
> > But they also see that they can make their own copy, on a drive or a
> > printout, without paying anything:
>
> > Fuji-san by George Dance is licensed under a Creative Commons
> > Attribution-Share Alike 2.5 Canada License.
>
> > ??? Do you really think I'm trying to trick anyone into buying "Betty"
> > on Kindle by making them think fucking Fuji-san is on included? Now
> > your stories about me are becoming not just 'inaccurate' and
> > 'untruthful' (to use the current SP buzzwords) but ridiculous.
>
> While looking for something else, I found the original "conversation"
> between you, Stuart, Cythera, Karla & others, which will illuminate
> this current "conversation" greatly. Here's the link, cached, since
> the actual page seems dead and soon to vanish:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2a8ccaj
>
> And some interesting excerpts that shed light on what really went on
> back then, such as an early source for the Fuji-san / hat / snowcap
> image:
>
> Lafcadio Hearn had the idea that Fuji looked like a straw hat in
> 1898.
>
> > "They supplied me with a pilgrim-staff, heavy blue tabi (that is to
> > say, cleft-stockings, to used with sandals), a straw hat shaped like
> > Fuji, and the rest of a pilgrim's outfit;--telling me to be ready to
> > start with them at four o'clock in the morning."
> >http://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/lh/fuji.html
>
> It looks to me that, for 'Cythera and the others,' it depends on who
> borrows, and/or from whom.
>
> Fuji-san
>
> In the flaming sun,
> Fuji-san wears his
> White-straw sugegasa.
>
> -George Dance
>
> so much snow
> fuji-yama
> white-sugar hat
>
> -Cythera
>
> George Dance wrote:
> > >Cythera wrote:
> > > > How is your poem substantively different from mine?
>
> > > Mine mentions the sun; yours doesn't. Mine mentions the mt. by its
> > > proper name; yours doesn't; mine mentions the conical straw hat and
> > > gives its proper name (which I found myself using the link I posted
> > > Feb. 10); yours doesn't (even though, it turns out, you'd seen the
> > > same link).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conical_straw_hat
>
> Then about 12 hours later I wrote the following and included this
>
> > > wikipedia url:
>
> > > I thought the top of Fuji-yama looks like a conical hat. Children wear
> > > them in Japan.
>
> ----
> From Stuart Leichter (08.03.2010 - 21:35):
>
> Back in '98 windshield_washer posted this revision of one of her
> poems,
> which she called icebergs:
>
>   tell me the icebergs of your life
>               the world below the waterline
>               emotions   courtships  bluebirds  crows
>               concepts of justice  definitions of sin
>               criterion of ethics  visions of nobility
>
>               what is the tempo of your life
>               networks of friendships   orders of time
>               and when you fall in love
>               how do you tell your beloved
>
> I read it to an audience at one of my poetry performances, along with
> some other poems which also had been posted at rec.arts.poems around
> the
> same time by other writers. I gave appropriate credit. My stated
> purpose
> was to introduce the online poetry group forum to active poets. After
> (days or weeks, I don't remember), I told her or the group in general
> that I'd performed the works in public. No one got abscesses on their
> asses about it. No one at the reading asked me if I'd got permission
> first - probably because it was the last thing that would have
> occurred
> to any of them.
> ----
>
> On Mar 8, 1:07=A0pm, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> sneezuschristsupersnarl <***@cox.net> wrote:
> > Of course, Dockery is going to try to come to George's
> > rescue/defense
>
> No, George doesn't need any more rescue/defense than others working
> in
> that form of poetry ("Borrowed Keyword" is one term) than others who
> use the method, Houstman, Adam, et al do.
>
> > by claiming Betty is borrowed from him. =A0
>
> No "claim", I was the one who created the "Betty" character, and even
> had my own poem about her (although I eventually changed her name
> again, to a real person I know):
>
> http://tinyurl.com/Betty-Poem
>
> Betty & Her Pale Blue Hat by Will Dockery
>
> There's more, but this wasn't exactly what I was looking for, which
> was any indication that Cythera (or George) originally gave *any*
> credit to Rain Shadow for being the originator of the ideas and images
> in *both* their poems.
>
> So far, I've seen none, at least none from the time the poems were
> generated.
>


As for me, I didn't credit rain shadow's poem, because I didn't know
about rain shadow's poem. I didn't read that section of the thread, in
which PJ Ross was flaming r/s through one of his bogus conversations
with an ally. A month or so later I stumbled on Cythera;'s post to
Barbara's Cat which began with her "haiku".

I discovered rain shadow's poem only a month after that, and I wrote
to her on the group; but she didn't reply.



> --
> Poetry & Music by Will Dockery:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[George Dance]

On Oct 13, 3:04 am, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> George Dance wrote:
> >Cythera said:
>
> <snip for focus>
>
> > > People who see this page
>
> > >http://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2010/03/fuji-san.html
>
> > > might think "Fuji-san" is also for sale
>
> > But they also see that they can make their own copy, on a drive or a
> > printout, without paying anything:
>
> > Fuji-san by George Dance is licensed under a Creative Commons
> > Attribution-Share Alike 2.5 Canada License.
>
> > ??? Do you really think I'm trying to trick anyone into buying "Betty"
> > on Kindle by making them think fucking Fuji-san is on included? Now
> > your stories about me are becoming not just 'inaccurate' and
> > 'untruthful' (to use the current SP buzzwords) but ridiculous.
>
> While looking for something else, I found the original "conversation"
> between you, Stuart, Cythera, Karla & others, which will illuminate
> this current "conversation" greatly. Here's the link, cached, since
> the actual page seems dead and soon to vanish:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2a8ccaj
>
> And some interesting excerpts that shed light on what really went on
> back then, such as an early source for the Fuji-san / hat / snowcap
> image:

Not exactly on topic for right here, but: I noticed a quote in there*
from Stuart Leichter that is well worth preserving, so onto the thread
it goes:

* (if Cythera doesn't mind be sayng 'there' for a post, as she's
already complained that posts and threads aren't "locations").


Why would Ross be entitled to any credit in the first place? His found
schmatta inspired George. So what?
- Stuart Leichter
http://tinyurl.com/batty-schmatty

[Peter J Ross]

In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 13 Oct 2010 06:29:30 -0700 (PDT),
George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Why would Ross be entitled to any credit in the first place? His found
> schmatta inspired George. So what?
> - Stuart Leichter
> http://tinyurl.com/batty-schmatty

Oh, some irresponsible twit agrees with Dunce! No doubt we'll all have
to change our minds about everything now that the irresposible twit
has been quoted!

Incidentally, Dunce, WTF is "freak-search.com"? Is it the dating
agency where you and Dreckery first met?


--
PJR :-)
http://pjr.gotdns.org/

[Will Dockery]

Peter J Ross wrote:
>
> WTF is "freak-search.com"?

Another Usenet gateway-archive, for example:

http://www.freak-search.com/en/thread/1386134/she_sleeps_tightpastiche/4

HTH & HAND.

--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGY157cpiU

[George Dance]

On Oct 15, 11:45 am, Peter J Ross <***@example.invalid> wrote:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 13 Oct 2010 06:29:30 -0700 (PDT),
>
> George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > Why would Ross be entitled to any credit in the first place? His found
> > schmatta inspired George. So what?
> >     - Stuart Leichter
> >    http://tinyurl.com/batty-schmatty
>
> Oh, some irresponsible twit agrees with Dunce! No doubt we'll all have
> to change our minds about everything now that the irresposible twit
> has been quoted!
>

Unlike you and the rest of the alleged "betters" from RAP, Stuart
appears to have actually studied the issue.

> Incidentally, Dunce, WTF is "freak-search.com"?

I've never been there. Why are you asking me?

> Is it the dating
> agency where you and Dreckery first met?
>

More homophobing, homophobic PJ? Does Rik Roots (left back on RAP
writing poetry or whatever) know about your constant homophobing
here*? Think he should be told?

(*Note to Karla: Just because "RAP" and "here" are in the same
sentence, does not mean that I'm saying that RAP is "here.")



> --
> PJR :-)http://pjr.gotdns.org/

[Hieronymous Corey]

On Oct 15, 1:34 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Unlike you and the rest of the alleged "betters" from RAP,

Attribute the quote. Who made the specific allegation of betters?
You want to see betters? I'll show you betters!

> Stuart appears to have actually studied the issue.

Of course Stuart studied the issue. You can say Stuart studied the
issue. You don't have to say appears to have, actually. It sounds
betters if you say Stuart actually studied the issue. GET IT NOW,
GEORGE?!? ALL BETTERS!?!

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous Corey <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > Stuart appears to have actually studied the issue.
>
> Of course Stuart studied the issue.  You can say Stuart studied the
> issue.  You don't have to say appears to have, actually.  It sounds
> betters if you say Stuart actually studied the issue.  GET IT NOW,
> GEORGE?!?  ALL BETTERS!?!

Stuart also stated that he was "an expert" on the subject, earlier
that year:

Stuart Leichter wrote:

"...Back in the 90s owing to EZ www access, the Dean of Students
(he's also a lawyer) at one of our campuses and I workshopped our
faculty about 'plagiarism'. Right, I'm a trained professional about so-
called plagiarism. The euphemistic rubric had become known as
'academic integrity', plagiarism became a behavioral issue instead of
an academic issue, following then-recent court decisions about
plagiarism in secondary and higher education academic settings. You
couldn't outright flunk the bastard in the course for cheating. Even
if the course was called Ethics. From what I can tell here in this
thread, none of y'all knows enough about plagiarism to say something,
dispositive one way or another. As an expert I will assure you,
George, that Dale plagiarized Alacrity in the within matter, and also,
it can be ignored, not mentioned, as though it weren't plagiarism;
given the context (here on Usenet's aapc, or in a classroom setting),
it's a subjective judgment, so what matters is who's judging and if
the judge is qualified. I'm qualified. More? Even had Houstman given
credit and attribution to Alacrity, he still plagiarized Alacrity -
that is, if I say so and can show the improper borrowing (but I would
sooner eat broken glass). Everything depends on who makes the rules
and who can enforce them."

--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8v5eb9Qx5E

ARTEMIS RECORDS ® presents "JUST STOP THE WAR!" by GLAZ WIND.This
music video features several artists including, Basil Fitzpatrick,
Clyde Baker, Durundo Jenkins, Faye Fitzpatrick, Will Dockery, Gaye
Poor, Sandy Madaris, Gene Woolfolk Jr., Gary Adkins, and Henry Foster
Conley. A portion of proceeds of CD and internet music downloads goes
to support the Disabled American Veterans. Edited By Jamie Mitchell.

> > >http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Peter J Ross]

In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri, 15 Oct 2010 11:54:51 -0700 (PDT),
Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hieronymous Corey <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>> > Stuart appears to have actually studied the issue.
>>
>> Of course Stuart studied the issue.  You can say Stuart studied the
>> issue.  You don't have to say appears to have, actually.  It sounds
>> betters if you say Stuart actually studied the issue.  GET IT NOW,
>> GEORGE?!?  ALL BETTERS!?!
>
> Stuart also stated that he was "an expert" on the subject, earlier
> that year:

Will Dreckery also stated that he was "a poet and musician", passim.


--
PJR :-)
http://pjr.gotdns.org/

[Will Dockery]

On Oct 15, 1:34 pm, George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Oct 15, 11:45 am, Peter J Ross <***@example.invalid> wrote:
>> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 13 Oct 2010 06:29:30 -0700 (PDT),
> > George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> > Why would Ross be entitled to any credit in the first place? His found
> > > schmatta inspired George. So what?
> > >     - Stuart Leichter
>
> >    http://tinyurl.com/batty-schmatty
>
> Stuart appears to have actually studied the issue.

He's an expert, and supposedly taught classes on the subject at one
time or another.

> > Incidentally, Dunce, WTF is "freak-search.com"?
>
> I've never been there. Why are you asking me?
>
> > Is it the dating
> > agency where you and Dreckery first met?
>
> More homophobing, homophobic PJ? Does Rik Roots (left back on RAP
> writing poetry or whatever) know about your constant homophobing
> here*? Think he should be told?
>
> (*Note to Karla: Just because "RAP" and "here" are in the same
> sentence, does not mean that I'm saying that RAP is "here.")

Heh... PJR probably secretly slobbers all over Dennis Hammes'
homoerotic limmericks about us.

--
"Black Crow's Brother" / Will Dockery & Gini Woolfolk:
http://www.myspace.com/music/will-dockery-1735549/songs/black-crow-39-s-brother-woolfolk-dockery-59140025

[Peter J Ross]

In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri, 15 Oct 2010 10:34:47 -0700 (PDT),
George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> On Oct 15, 11:45 am, Peter J Ross <***@example.invalid> wrote:
>> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 13 Oct 2010 06:29:30 -0700 (PDT),
>> George Dance <***@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> > Why would Ross be entitled to any credit in the first place? His found
>> > schmatta inspired George. So what?
>> >     - Stuart Leichter
>> >    http://tinyurl.com/batty-schmatty
>>
>> Oh, some irresponsible twit agrees with Dunce! No doubt we'll all have
>> to change our minds about everything now that the irresposible twit
>> has been quoted!
>>
>
> Unlike you and the rest of the alleged "betters" from RAP, Stuart
> appears to have actually studied the issue.

You appear to have actually studied Iambic Pentameter. But your
opinions about it still make me laugh whenever I think of them.

>> Incidentally, Dunce, WTF is "freak-search.com"?
>
> I've never been there. Why are you asking me?

OK. So why do you provide links to Web sites you've never been to?

>> Is it the dating
>> agency where you and Dreckery first met?
>>
>
> More homophobing, homophobic PJ? Does Rik Roots (left back on RAP
> writing poetry or whatever) know about your constant homophobing
> here*? Think he should be told?

No doubt Rik would be SHOCKED if he knew that I'd called you and
Dreckery a pair of freaks.

It's interesting that, unlike me, you assume that homosexuality can't
be implied without an insult being intended. It's so interesting that
I'd like you to write some more on the subject.

> (*Note to Karla: Just because "RAP" and "here" are in the same
> sentence, does not mean that I'm saying that RAP is "here.")

Since you've crossposted your pathetic attempt to get support from
Rik, all the groups you've crossposted to are "here".

--
PJR :-)
http://pjr.gotdns.org/

[Will Dockery]

Peter J Ross said:
>
> It's interesting that, unlike me, you assume that homosexuality can't
> be implied without an insult being intended.

And what did your pal intend when he pasted stolen photos (which is
bothe copyright theft & intellectual property theft, as you know) of
people we know (no reason to name names at this late date, right,
PJR?) onto stolen photographs of gay porn & whatever the stolen
photograph below comes from:

http://picasaweb.google.com/ginopiper/PDWilsonAndOtherPics#5226684879005292610

I don't actually have the photos where homosexuality was not only
implied by your friend, but his fantasies were vividly depicted, and
caused the similarly famous statement from Karla:

http://www.n-n-a.com/recreational/post-611037.html

"...I have no idea what most of you mean when you bash someone by
depicting them in homosexual acts, whether it is with words or
pictures. What I mean is, using it here may not mean that you're
anti-gay, homophobic, sexist, etc. I have no idea. But the cheap shot
isn't helpful and promotes sexist and homophobic thinking..."
-Karla Rogers

Anyway, this is just another example of your bland hypocrisy, PJR, and
example of why anyone reading the newsgroups shouldn't trust a word
you type.

--
"Shadowville Speedway" CD on Artemis Records:
http://www.artemisrecords.net/dockeryconley.html

[ggamble]

> hypocrisy

> anyone reading the newsgroups shouldn't trust a word
> you type.

[Peter J Ross]

In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:19:16 -0700 (PDT),
Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> stolen photos

Are you refering to the photos which the rotting corpse formerly known
as Tommy Tosser stole from God, alias Michael Cook?


--
PJR :-)
http://pjr.gotdns.org/

[Will Dockery]

Peter J Ross wrote:
>
> Are you refering to the photos which the rotting corpse formerly known
> as Tommy Tosser stole from God, alias Michael Cook?

No, I was refering to this post:

Peter J Ross said:
>
> It's interesting that, unlike me, you assume that homosexuality can't
> be implied without an insult being intended.

And what did your pal intend when he pasted stolen photos (which is
bothe copyright theft & intellectual property theft, as you know) of
people we know (no reason to name names at this late date, right,
PJR?) onto stolen photographs of gay porn & whatever the stolen
photograph below comes from:

http://picasaweb.google.com/ginopiper/PDWilsonAndOtherPics#5226684879005292610

I don't actually have the photos where homosexuality was not only
implied by your friend, but his fantasies were vividly depicted, and
caused the similarly famous statement from Karla:

http://www.n-n-a.com/recreational/post-611037.html

"...I have no idea what most of you mean when you bash someone by
depicting them in homosexual acts, whether it is with words or
pictures. What I mean is, using it here may not mean that you're
anti-gay, homophobic, sexist, etc. I have no idea. But the cheap shot
isn't helpful and promotes sexist and homophobic thinking..."
-Karla Rogers

Anyway, this is just another example of your bland hypocrisy, PJR, and
example of why anyone reading the newsgroups shouldn't trust a word
you type.

--
"Shadowville Speedway" CD on Artemis Records:
http://www.artemisrecords.net/dockeryconley.html

[Peter J Ross]

In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Thu, 21 Oct 2010 14:51:42 -0700 (PDT),
Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Peter J Ross wrote:
>>
>> Are you refering to the photos which the rotting corpse formerly known
>> as Tommy Tosser stole from God, alias Michael Cook?
>
> No, I was refering to this post:

<snip>

There are no photos contained in the post you quote. To what stolen
photos are you referring, if not to the ones I suggested?

P.S. It's "referring", not "refering". I hope I'm not such a beacon to
illiterates that even my typos are always copied blindly.


--
PJR :-)

[Will Dockery]

Peter J Ross said:
>
> There are no photos contained in the post you quote.

Try this one, then:

http://picasaweb.google.com/ginopiper/PDWilsonAndOtherPics#5226684879005292610

> Peter J Ross said:
>
> > It's interesting that, unlike me, you assume that homosexuality can't
> > be implied without an insult being intended.
>
> And what did your pal intend when he pasted stolen photos (which is
> bothe copyright theft & intellectual property theft, as you know) of
> people we know (no reason to name names at this late date, right,
> PJR?) onto stolen photographs of gay porn & whatever the stolen
> photograph below comes from:
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/ginopiper/PDWilsonAndOtherPics#5226684879005292610
>
> I don't actually have the photos where homosexuality was not only
> implied by your friend, but his fantasies were vividly depicted, and
> caused the similarly famous statement from Karla:
>
> http://www.n-n-a.com/recreational/post-611037.html
>
> "...I have no idea what most of you mean when you bash someone by
> depicting them in homosexual acts, whether it is with words or
> pictures. What I mean is, using it here may not mean that you're
> anti-gay, homophobic, sexist, etc. I have no idea. But the cheap shot
> isn't helpful and promotes sexist and homophobic thinking..."
> -Karla Rogers
>
> Anyway, this is just another example of your bland hypocrisy, PJR, and
> example of why anyone reading the newsgroups shouldn't trust a word
> you type.

--
Will Dockery, Folk Rock / Blues / Experimental:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Will Dockery]

On Oct 21, 2:07 pm, Peter J Ross said:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:19:16 -0700 (PDT),
> Will Dockery wrote:
> > stolen photos
>
> Are you refering to the photos which the rotting corpse formerly known
> as Tommy Tosser stole from God, alias Michael Cook?

You just make it too simple to show why nobody reading these
newsgroups should believe a word you write, don't you, PJR? This "God"
you refer to actually stole photographs from two (three, actually)
sources to generate his photo manipulations:

1) The backgrounds, which were usually uncredited images Cook swiped
from his gay porn collection.

2) The photographs of the faces of the people he swiped, without
permission and without credit, which Cook then photoshopped onto the
stolen gay porn images.

Here's one example where Cook stole from my copyrighted intellectual
property:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Will_Dockery_Jocelyn_Lannom.jpg

to generate his copyright infringement layed /on top/ of another
copyright infringement:

http://picasaweb.google.com/ginopiper/PDWilsonAndOtherPics#5226684879005292610

The original post, which is slightly amusing, from 07-09-2005, 12:29
PM

Will Dockery Live! [Cook Productions]

http://www.photography-forums.com/dockery-live-cook-productions-t166638.html

"Michael Cook" wrote:
> "Will Dockery" wrote:
>
> > Karma's such a bitch.
>
> here is some instant karma for ya:
>
> http://www.kookbusters.org/fool.wmv

Thanks, pal... you should load it to Wikimedia... don't forget the
credit
lines. The young lady is Jocelyn Lammons:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Will_Dockery_Jocelyn_Lannom.jpg

And you know me, you being one of my biggest fans.

Slow down on the nose candy, though... it could blow your heart up.
----

HTH & HAND.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Peter J Ross]

In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri, 22 Oct 2010 14:28:07 -0700 (PDT),
Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 21, 2:07 pm, Peter J Ross said:
>> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:19:16 -0700 (PDT),
>> Will Dockery wrote:
>> > stolen photos
>>
>> Are you refering to the photos which the rotting corpse formerly known
>> as Tommy Tosser stole from God, alias Michael Cook?
>
> You just make it too simple to show why nobody reading these
> newsgroups should believe a word you write, don't you, PJR? This "God"
> you refer to actually stole photographs from two (three, actually)
> sources to generate his photo manipulations:
>
> 1) The backgrounds, which were usually uncredited images Cook swiped
> from his gay porn collection.
>
> 2) The photographs of the faces of the people he swiped, without
> permission and without credit, which Cook then photoshopped onto the
> stolen gay porn images.

So that's three unrelated images combined to produce something
completely new.

But of course, you think "collage" is a place where you've never been
except to deliver a pizza.

God's, alias Mr Cook's, work may or may not be offensive, tasteless,
obscene or whatever (and I'm aware that not everybody finds it as
entertaining as I do), but it certainly isn't stolen.

> Here's one example where Cook stole from my copyrighted intellectual
> property:
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Will_Dockery_Jocelyn_Lannom.jpg
>
> to generate his copyright infringement layed /on top/ of another
> copyright infringement:
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/ginopiper/PDWilsonAndOtherPics#5226684879005292610

Teehee! I hadn't kept a copy of that one. Thanks!

But again, the image is Mr Cook's work, not anybody else's. Have you
got his permission to host it in your gallery?

<...>


--
PJR :-)

[Will Dockery]

Cythera said:
>
> she needs to give written credit to William Shakespeare.

No, Cythera, you should be well-read, intelligent and/or "educated"
enough to know that a homage to someone as well-known and legendary as
W.S. (or even Jagger-Richards, who you foolishly mention below) is
much different from "borrowing" from an obscure poet where the casual
reader is unlikely to know the reference.

That's been called in the past "trying to pass the work off as your
own", as Rik Roots put it.

> that you owe it to Jagger/Richards for your phrase "moonlit mile."

The Rolling Stones have "Moonlight Mile", not "Moonlit Mile", Cythera.

See above for the lowdown on that, Cythera, plus, my poem "Moonlit
Mile", has very little-to-nothing in common, really, with the Rolling
Stones masterpiece, which is, again, called "Moonlight Mile", not
Moonlit:

Moonlit Mile

So many tears on a moonlit mile
through Aokigahara forest
old man tips his snow cap.

-Will Dockery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aokigahara

--
Poetry & Music of Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Will Dockery]

Barbie Cat said:
>
> Even it rejects you

Having comprehension problems again, Barbie?

IOW, what do these statements have to do with my poem "Moonlit Mile"?

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=39701667&blogId=539953394

> Moonlit Mile
>
> So many tears on a moonlit mile
> through Aokigahara forest
> old man tips his snow cap.
>
> -Will Dockery
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aokigahara
>
> --
> Poetry & Music of Will Dockery & Friends:

http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Hieronymous Corey]

On Oct 16, 9:59 pm, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Barbie Cat said:
>
>
>
> > Even it rejects you
>
> Having comprehension problems again, Barbie?
>
> IOW, what do these statements have to do with my poem "Moonlit Mile"?

They are exemplars, as "Moonlit Mile" is the perfect exemplar of both
your work, and your attitude toward your work. I bet you're real
proud of yourself there now aren't you mister smartypants. Don't
answer. That's not a question.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous Corey wrote:
>
> They are exemplars, as "Moonlit Mile" is the perfect exemplar of both
> your work, and your attitude toward your work.

Thanks, but a little more detail here would be even more appreciated, -
hi-.

>  I bet you're real
> proud of yourself there now aren't you mister smartypants.  Don't
> answer.  That's not a question.

Okay.

--
Moonlit Mile / Will Dockery:
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=39701667&blogId=539953394

[Hieronymous Corey]

On Oct 17, 9:21 am, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hieronymous Corey wrote:
>
> > They are exemplars, as "Moonlit Mile" is the perfect exemplar of both
> > your work, and your attitude toward your work.
>
> Thanks, but a little more detail here would be even more appreciated, -
> hi-.

Fuck you. Read that part of my post that you snipped again. Read it
ten times. Then, if you still need more detail, ask again nicely.
Maybe I'll take pity on you, if I think you're asking humbly enough,
and deign to reply. I don't think so, but you can try.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous Corey <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>Will Dockery wrote:
>> Hieronymous Corey wrote:
>
> > > They are exemplars, as "Moonlit Mile" is the perfect exemplar of both
> > > your work, and your attitude toward your work.
>
> > Thanks, but a little more detail here would be even more appreciated, -
> > hi-.
>
> Fuck you. Read that part of my post that you snipped again. Read it
> ten times. Then, if you still need more detail, ask again nicely.
> Maybe I'll take pity on you, if I think you're asking humbly enough,
> and deign to reply. I don't think so, but you can try.

Okay, that sounds like a plan, then... heh.

Moonlit Mile
>
> So many tears on a moonlit mile
> through Aokigahara forest
> old man tips his snow cap.
>
> -Will Dockery
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aokigahara

--
Moonlit Mile / Will Dockery:
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=39701667&blogId=539953394

[Will Dockery]

Peter J Ross wrote:
>
> http://www.lulu.com/product/media-download/karma-bombs/36281
>
> I don't seem to see the phrase "Michael Cook" anywhere

You think I should add a "Stolen by Michael Cook, then returned to the
owner, Will Dockery" line on there somewhere, PJR?

Anyway, your usual attempt at lying and misrepresentation has been
duly corrected, PJR. Care to try again, liar?

--
Will Dockery, Folk Rock / Blues / Experimental:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Peter J Ross]

In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed, 3 Nov 2010 14:53:48 -0700 (PDT),
Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Peter J Ross wrote:
>>
>> http://www.lulu.com/product/media-download/karma-bombs/36281
>>
>> I don't seem to see the phrase "Michael Cook" anywhere
>
> You think I should add a "Stolen by Michael Cook, then returned to the
> owner, Will Dockery" line on there somewhere, PJR?

Adding defamation to theft might be unwise.

So go for it!

> Anyway, your usual attempt at lying and misrepresentation has been
> duly corrected, PJR. Care to try again, liar?

Psst: everybody knows that in our one-to-one discussions there's only
one liar, and it's not me.

Even Dunce and chuckles know that, but they're desperate for allies,
so they pretend otherwise.



--
PJR :-)

[Will Dockery]

Peter J Ross said:
> Will Dockery wrote:
> > Peter J Ross wrote:
>
> >>http://www.lulu.com/product/media-download/karma-bombs/36281
>
> >> I don't seem to see the phrase "Michael Cook" anywhere
>
> > You think I should add a "Stolen by Michael Cook, then returned to the
> > owner, Will Dockery" line on there somewhere, PJR?
>
> Adding defamation to theft <snip>

You're referring to Michael Cook's photo manipulations as well as the
fact
that he stole my "Karma Bombs" poem, then, PJR?

Since you're back to lying about my "Karma Bombs" poem, here's a few
of the
facts, again:

> > >>> "That sounds like a repeat of the way Tom Bishop ended his
> > >>> friendship
> > >>> with me, when he did a "Michael Cook" on Karla's poem, and put it,
> > >>> almost word-for-word with a video on his website, I, like you,
> > >>> "reviewed the evidence, I came up with my honest conclusion", which
> > >>> was completely on Karla's side. It helped that I had been through
> > >>> almost exactly the same situation the year before with the theft of
> > >>> my
> > >>> "Karma Bombs" poem (which is a famous story, no need to repeat here,
> > >>> heh)."
>
> After stealing "Karma Bombs" from me, Michael Cook turned the
> recording over to me, at which point I added a "Will Dockery" credit
> line, which he had for whatever reason left of, thus trying to pass
> the work off as his own.
>
> > It certainly should not be "over and done with".
>
> But it is, PJR. Michael Cook stole my poem "Karma Bombs", made a word-
> for-word recording of it (this time I use that term %100 correctly,
> Karla), as Cook stole my poem, didn't change a word of it, but managed
> to leave any credit off his version to me as the writer of the poem
> (as well as the owner, who he never asked my permission to use the
> poem, either).
>
> These facts make Michael Cook a copyright abuser, poetry thief and
> plagiarist, but since he gave the recording to me to use, and backed
> off, it is indeed "over and done with" because I want it to be. I own
> the rights, and also have the right to choose what is done with my
> property, the "Karma Bombs" poem.
>
> What Cook did was "take" and "steal"--- and Karla, the
> roots of the term "borrowed" is here, as Cook responded that's what he
> had done when:
>
> Dockery: "Hey! You stole my poem!"
>
> Cook: "Not stolen, borrowed."
>
> Since the "Karma Bombs"
> poem was stolen by Cook in the first place, he had no rights to it at
> all, and was not authorized to give "permission" as to the use of my
> poem in any way.

"We know."

--
Will Dockery, Folk Rock / Blues / Experimental:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Will Dockery]

"ggamble" <***@regrets-of-the-nam.net> wrote in message
news:j9WdnXg6Uuwf2uLTnZ2dnUVZ_r-***@giganews.com...
>
> In other words: the poem in question

<snip>

Well, let's see for ourselves (reposted with permission of poet):

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/fb50791456b0f215?hl=en

ground zero

i seem to remember
a sunroof sky
full of kanji and silk
wisteria dancing across the wind
my daughter laughing in that so saturated face
as friend and i sit down to our morning game
i swore i would take advantage of his saki rejuvenation

i seem to remember
the taste of my wife's lips
so sweet a touch of harmony
quickly replaced by the happy wet kiss of my child
giggling so to almost annoy
this fierce competition

my new pocket watch stating
with such fine western precision
you have time to champion
it's only
8:13

i seem to remember
wind chimes singing to laughter
and graceful chatter
rising so near to cacophony
in anticipation of movement

a whirl and rash
of mans humanity

i seem to remember
a distant sound of wings
floating across an eastern sky
and eyes squinting to see

to my child suddenly
turning white

the brightest white
the hottest white
the darkest white

i shall never see

i can't seem to remember
where i left my soul

i think it's where my shadow
left a halo
burned into the ground

=z=

*** Obviously quite a bit better than many poems posted here, such as your
two, "Pete the Dog" & "Regrets of the 'Nam"... heh.

--
Shark Pact Manifesto / Will Dockery & Shadowville All-Stars:
http://youtu.be/Ft3X3kC6nr4

[Will Dockery]

The Rolling Stones, Godfathers of Poetry:

> > > > And, yes, I said from the start that my "Moonlit Mile" bit was (I
> > > > assumed)
> > > > obvious nod (homage) to The Rolling Stones, just as I suspect
> > > > Chrissy Hinde
> > > > was doing years ago with her song "Don't Get Me Wrong" which also
> > > > has a bit
> > > > about her being on a "moonlit mile".
>
> > > You certainly did not write that to me
>
> > Again, I sure did, Cythera, right here, on Oct 18, 3:52 am:
>
> > > I notice that if a source for "Moonlit Mile" was most obvious to me,
> > > it would have to be Chrissie Hynde, from her heartwrenching "Don't Get
> > > Me Wrong":
>
> Where in this ^ do you mention The Rolling Stones?
>
> > >http://artists.letssingit.com/the-pretenders-lyrics-dont-get-me-wrong...
>
> > > "Don't get me wrong
> > > if I split like light refracted
> > > I'm only off to wander
> > > across a moolit mile" -C. Hynde
>
> Or where in this ^ do you mention The Rolling Stones?

I've mentioned The Rolling Stones numerous times in this thread.

--
Shark Pact Manifesto / Will Dockery & Shadowville All-Stars:
http://youtu.be/Ft3X3kC6nr4

[Will Dockery]

On  1-Nov-2010, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >  I'm a believer in giving credit where it is due.

Yes, indeed.

Take for example, the song & video linked to below, and the subject of
this thread:

--
"She Sleeps Tight" by Will Dockery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D9uGY157cpiU

Click the link and on the page is a full credit listing for everyone
involved in the writing, performing, recording and visuals for the
video:

'She Sleeps Tight", vocals by Will Dockery & Sandy Madaris, guitars by
Brian Mallard. Paintings by George Sulzbach.

She Sleeps Tight

Sleeps so tight
she has a marksman's eye.
Maker's mark
tattoo firewater spine.
Leather shoes
but nowhere to go.

Dice and coins
scattered in the snow.
Dice and coins
scattered in the snow.

Won't be long,
until I see her face.
She's waiting
in an undisclosed place.
I've been conspired
banned from my muse.

This won't stick
poor boy's all confused.
This won't stick
poor boy's all confused.

In Salem town
she keeps her chin so high.
Darkened breeze
she smiles as I roll by.
Step inside
she looks for tables left.

Wink at time
nothing lasts except yourself.
Wink at time
nothing lasts except yourself.

Like a Steamboat
she plans to roll on down.
To the Gulf
out of this dirty town.
Copper mesh
kept stuffed in a jar.

Sharp cold hit
turning wine to water.
Sharp cold hit
turning wine to water.

We know him
eye deed by his ship.
In a trap
a kind of goosechase trip.
Whiskey fumes
and stale gunsmoke.

Sunk and drowned
with all her knives and jokes.
Sunk and drowned
with all her knives and jokes.

Sleeps so tight
she has a marksman's eye.
Maker's mark
tattoo firewater spine.
Leather shoes
but nowhere to go.

-Will Dockery (words)
Brian Mallard (music)

©2009 by Dockery-Mallard

[Will Dockery]

Meat Plow <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Will Dockery wrote:
> > "ggamble" <ggasfly @lying.burnout.net> wrote:
> >> On 20-Oct-2010, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> >> > Angel, Vera, Marg... all the victims of your obsessed spreading of
> >> > lies & misrepresentation, not to mention your outright, vicious
> >> > attacks whenever they posted a poem here, ggamble.
>
> > <snip for focus>
>
> >> Angel wasn't a poet
>
> > Lie #1 from ggamble. Angel wrote and posted poetry here, and still does
> > on other groups. This "not a poet" thing you get stuck on, as if you are
> > in a position to judge what is and isn't poetry, is perhaps your biggest
> > and most destructive lie and misrepresentation of all.
>
> >> The same goes for Vera.
>
> > Lie #2 from ggamble. Vera posted many poems here, and as the archives
> > show, your attacks on her were probably your most vicious of all.
>
> >> marg wasn't a poet either
>
> > She posted (and still does, elsewhere) poetry, so yes, liar, she is a
> > poet.

<snip for focus>

> Will Dockery is not an authoritative figure in poetry and lacks
> qualification to determine who is a poet and who is not.

And I take it you now claim to have these "qualifications", Meat Plow, since
you've just made all these judgements?

Have you even written a song or a poem yet? Last I heard you'd admitted you
haven't... click the link below for an example of /both/ from "Will
Dockery":

--
"She Sleeps Tight" / Will Dockery & The Shadowville All-Stars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v9uGY157cpiU

[Will Dockery]

Are Haiku Poems... lost discussion:

> "Your" idea is mine, as follows:

"Your" idea is older than you might think:

http://haikutopics.blogspot.com/2006/05/hat-kasa.html

Good site, btw, thanks for posting...

--
Shark Pact Manifesto / Will Dockery & Shadowville All-Stars:
http://youtu.be/Ft3X3kC6nr4

[Will Dockery]

Another "losr post" from the Drafts folder:

> "Your" idea is mine, as follows:

"Your" idea is older than you might think:

http://haikutopics.blogspot.com/2006/05/hat-kasa.html

Good site, btw, thanks for posting...

--
Poetry and music of Will Dockery:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery

[Will Dockery]

"ggamble" <ggasfly @lying-burnout.net> wrote:
>
> talentless mental case

Don't be so hard on yourself, ggamble, while your two most well-known
poems, "Fred The Dog" & "Regrets of the Nam", may not show very much
talent, they are at least endlessly entertaining, which, after all, if
the main purpose of poetry:

http://omgili.com/newsgroups/alt/arts/poetry/comments/e8d410a6-cf7d-4e13-8bdd-25e7d6164952v5g2000prmgooglegroupscom.html

"...For now, I am gone across a lonely, regretful brine,
To seek undaunted peacefulness for my troubled mind.
How despicable is a child man, to enhance wrath upon his quaker,
Knowing how frivolous he is upon his own chosen acre..." -Gary Gamble

A comedy classic!

"Bohgosity BumaskiL" <***@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
> Haiku are the only form with a rule of content; indicate season.
> I prefer them to be sentences, too, and you would not believe how
> sociopathological a senryu can get, so that rule of content is more
> important for me than grammar.
>
> This is not a hai-
> ku, because it fails to in-
> dicate a season.
> _______http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/Sound/Orchard_Farmer is a haiku.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Will Dockery]

On Sep 24, 8:50 am, "Colonel Edmund J. Burke" <***@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> THERE YOU HAVE IT, FOLKS.  A GAY BLADE USENET CLUSTER FUCK, RIGHT IN FRONT
> OF YA!

We can tell by your shrill screaming in all caps, you old drama queen.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Colonel Edmund J. Burke]

"Will Dockery" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:478106aa-3ec0-48bf-92b8-***@a30g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 24, 8:50 am, "Colonel Edmund J. Burke" <***@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> THERE YOU HAVE IT, FOLKS. A GAY BLADE USENET CLUSTER FUCK, RIGHT IN FRONT
> OF YA!

We can tell by your shrill screaming in all caps, you old drama queen.

Sorry, I wasn't screaming. I just got excited there fer a minute.

[Will Dockery]

Barbara's Cat wrote:
>
> I stupidly believes Bob Dylan wrote it.

No, stupid, Dylan did write the verses I quoted:

http://www.bobdylan.com/#/songs/tweedle-dee-tweedle-dum

Tweedle Dee & Tweedle Dum
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee
They’re throwing knives into the tree
Two big bags of dead man’s bones
Got their noses to the grindstones

Living in the Land of Nod
Trustin’ their fate to the Hands of God
They pass by so silently
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee

Well, they’re going to the country, they’re gonna retire
They’re taking a street car named Desire
Looking in the window at the pecan pie
Lot of things they’d like they would never buy

Neither one gonna turn and run
They’re making a voyage to the sun
“His Master’s voice is calling me”
Says Tweedle-dee Dum to Tweedle-dee Dee

Tweedle-dee Dee and Tweedle-dee Dum
All that and more and then some
They walk among the stately trees
They know the secrets of the breeze

Tweedle-dee Dum said to Tweedle-dee Dee
“Your presence is obnoxious to me”
They’re like babies sittin’ on a woman’s knee
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee

Well, the rain beating down on my window pane
I got love for you and it’s all in vain
Brains in the pot, they’re beginning to boil
They’re dripping with garlic and olive oil

Tweedle-dee Dee—he’s on his hands and his knees
Saying, “Throw me somethin’, Mister, please”
“What’s good for you is good for me”
Says Tweedle-dee Dum to Tweedle-dee Dee

Well, they’re living in a happy harmony
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee
They’re one day older and a dollar short
They’ve got a parade permit and a police escort

They’re lying low and they’re makin’ hay
They seem determined to go all the way
They run a brick-and-tile company
Tweedle-dee Dum and Tweedle-dee Dee

Well a childish dream is a deathless need
And a noble truth is a sacred dream
My pretty baby, she’s lookin’ around
She’s wearin’ a multi-thousand dollar gown

Tweedle-dee Dee is a lowdown, sorry old man
Tweedle-dee Dum, he’ll stab you where you stand
“I’ve had too much of your company,”
Says Tweedle-dee Dum to Tweedle-dee Dee

-Bob Dylan

Copyright © 2001 by Special Rider Music

> "Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold."
> - Mark Twain

True that & what he said.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Will Dockery]

More haiku, found on the internet:

Shoreline... by Lakeya Slap Gardner
http://www.facebook.com/?sk=2347471856#!/note.php?note_id=447984343336

Two Haiku by BeaN
http://www.intowncolumbus.com/forum/topics/another-haiku

and

http://www.intowncolumbus.com/forum/topics/columbus-haiku

> > Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?
>
> Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> America:
>
> http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> "...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> yet make you see the real thing.'  Just as he changed the standards of
> prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."
>
> I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
> to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.
>
> --
> Music & poetry of Will Dockery (no charge!):

http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

--
alt.arts.poetry.comments Facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=105463832836304&ref=ts

[Will Dockery]

Meat Plow <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>mat1t3 wrote:

<snip for brevity>

> > look at this:
>
> > the meat cat prance vs. the duck dunce dance.
>
> > aapc is in full swing again!
>
> > : )
>
> Did you miss us :)

Looks like you sure missed /us/, Meat... heh.

> >> Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?
>
> >Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> >as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> >America:
>
> >http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> >"...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> >to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> >image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> >portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> >spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> >in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> >The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> >yet make you see the real thing.'  Just as he changed the standards of
> >prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> >believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> >lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> >graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> >of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> >recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> >which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> >of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."
>
> >I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
> >to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.
> Nope, George wrote:  "And while I did find your three "haiku," you know I don't
>
> consider that sort off tossing-of to be poetry (regardless of source)."

--
"Shadowville Speedway" CD on Artemis Records:
http://www.artemisrecords.net/dockeryconley.html

[Will Dockery]

Meat Plow <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Really? Surely you jest :) Trying not to read 99.9% of his

<slap>

Ah... really? You seem to hang on (& sniff behind) to every word,
actually, M.P.

Come back and respond... you know you read this... heh.

> >> Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?
>
> >Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> >as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> >America:
>
> >http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> >"...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> >to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> >image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> >portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> >spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> >in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> >The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> >yet make you see the real thing.'  Just as he changed the standards of
> >prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> >believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> >lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> >graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> >of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> >recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> >which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> >of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."
>
> >I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
> >to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.

--
"Shadowville Speedway" CD on Artemis Records:
http://www.artemisrecords.net/dockeryconley.html

[Will Dockery]

Karla said:

<snip for focus>

> You consider haiku
> poetry when it's your haiku.

Again, has Haiku actually been declared "not poetry" here, Karla?

If so, most of us know that's not ture:

> > Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?
>
> Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> America:
>
> http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> "...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> yet make you see the real thing.' Just as he changed the standards of
> prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."

I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Will Dockery]

Karla said:

<snip for focus>

> You consider haiku
> poetry when it's your haiku.

Again, has Haiku actually been declared "not poetry" here, Karla?

If so, most of us know that's not true:

> > Are the haiku still not poems in your book, or have you reconsidered?
>
> Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> America:
>
> http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> "...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> yet make you see the real thing.' Just as he changed the standards of
> prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."

I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[George Dance]

On Oct 4, 3:01 pm, Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Karla said:
>
> <snip for focus>
>
> > You consider haiku
> > poetry when it's your haiku.
>
> Again, has Haiku actually been declared "not poetry" here, Karla?
>

I'm pretty sure Karla knows it hasn't. She's just misrepresenting
another comment of mine, in order to pretend something that's not
true.

> If so, most of us know that's not true:
>

It's also not true, of course, that I 'disqualified' her "haiku." I
explained why I didn't count them originally; but when Karla insisted
they were poems because she was "pleased with the results" (presumably
including any typos), I din't challenge any of them. Of course I don't
insist that anyone simply take my word for that: Here's proof, the
lists I posted Oct. 2:

<quote>
New poems written & posted between Feb./09-Aug./10:
03/02/09 (Men Prefer) Cast Iron Skillets
06/13/09 On Mariana in the Glass
10/03/09 In the Clouds
11/23/09 Sonnet
01/09/10 Grail
01/30/10 Haiku (Two cats on on a box)
01/31/10 Haiku (ping--)
01/31/10 Raisin Ether
02/15/10 Blue Quintet
02/26/10 Obpoem (Moon Moan)
03/14/10 Haiku (winter sun)

Reposts during Feb./09-Aug./10:
02/06/09 (05/06/98) I Am a Video *
05/10/09 (05/09/98) Lily of Lightfields
05/31/09 (07/14/01) Lot's Wife
06/08/09 (05/02/99) Trick of Light
06/10/09 (09/18/98) I'm Sorry Sister Alice *
06/14/09 (09/23/07) We are everything *
06/14/09 (03/31/99) Fast Food *
07/23/09 (08/09/98) Midwest Girl
08/22/09 (11/02/98) Despite *
09/30/09 (07/12/99) Twins
01/17/10 (06/22/98) Flamenco Nights
03/13/10 (03/02/09) Men Prefer (Cast Iron Skillets) *
03/18/10 (05/26/99) Under the Patina of Peace *
03/20/10 (06/27/98) New Values AAPC

>
> > Yes, Haiku are definitely poems, Karla, this was established at least
> > as far back as when Jack Kerouac helped give them credibility in
> > America:
>
> >http://www.fyreflyjar.net/jkhaiku.html
>
> > "...Knowing the basic characteristics of haiku, Kerouac's attraction
> > to this poetic form is clear. Using a short poem to present a simple
> > image or event allowed Kerouac to be spontaneous, to create his own
> > portrait using subtleties and direct thought. Kerouac revealed a true
> > spirituality in this one breath of haiku, like the continuous breath
> > in the jazz passages that attracted him. Using Kerouac's words from
> > The Dharma Bums, 'a real haiku's got to be as simple as porridge and
> > yet make you see the real thing.'  Just as he changed the standards of
> > prose, Jack Kerouac reworked the definition of the haiku form. He
> > believed that Western haiku need not be 17 syllables, just three short
> > lines that say a good deal, "free of poetic trickery" and "as airy and
> > graceful as a Vivaldi Pastorella." He used dashes for pauses in many
> > of the poems, like a tie in a measure of jazz music. Kerouac even
> > recorded an album of poetry and music called Blues and Haikus, on
> > which he read his haiku and had musicians play commentary interludes
> > of unrehearsed jazz between the readings."
>
> I think the problem George had with your Haiku was that they were hard
> to find in a search, being unlabelled as "poetry" in the posts, Karla.
>
> --
> Music & poetry of Will Dockery:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Will Dockery]

Barbie Cat said:
>
> > HAND.
>
> Your lover's name?

No--- "Have A Nice Day."

Moonlit Mile

So many tears on a moonlit mile
through Aokigahara forest
old man tips his snow cap.

-Will Dockery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aokigahara

--
Poetry & Music of Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Barbara's Cat]

Goober Dockery said:

> Barbara's Cat said:
>
> > Goober Dockery said:
> >
> > > HAND.
> >
> >
> > Your lover's name?
>
>
> No


Even it rejects you, eh, Goober?

--
Cm~

"I win."
- Goober Dockery
getting nowhere,
gaining nothing,
again.

[Will Dockery]

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.arts.poems/2009-01/msg00223.html

Honeytrip Sestina

Beads of sweat driving on 280,
thinking about a lonesome wildflower.
Cross country for this honeytrip,
going down to incant a shadowmusic,
joined on stage by her fiddle,
swear to god I really miss her.

She knows that I've missed her,
she drives alone on highway 280.
Her grandfather also played fiddle,
and grew gov'ment wildflowers.
Let him play his shadowmusic,
as we recall the honeytrip.

Backpacked, hitchhiked to honeytrip,
waterfall spray did mist her,
we formed a band to play shadowmusic.
Down in Salem, on Highway 280,
saw the sign of Project Wildflower,
a contra agent but plays good fiddle.

In the night sirens played fiddle,
rustling wail of honey trip.
Behind her ear was a wildflower,
I knew some day I would miss her.
Looking for tea olive on 280,
to play a few hours of shadowmusic.

Down a moonlit mile wild shadowmusic,
Bibb Mill burned as he played fiddle.
Westbound down Highway 280,
like a hound for the honeytrip,
after all her lies I still missed her,
blowing kisses from a field of wildflowers.

Sang a melody like "Wildwood Flower",
she made it her own kind of shadowmusic.
When he stepped on stage we called him mister,
ghost of Sgt. Fury playing show fiddle.
The only crown prince of honey trip,
people parked and walked from 280.

Smell the wildflowers, surrounded by shadowmusic,
I miss her and her grandfather's fiddle.
Lonesome old honeytrip, in a hollow off 280.

-Will Dockery

--
Music & poetry of Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Peter J Ross]

In rec.arts.poems on Tue, 19 Oct 2010 07:40:28 -0700 (PDT), Will
Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:

<tripesnip>

One day, after you've learnt what a poem is, you might learn what a
sestina is.

But I doubt it. You don't want to learn, you only want to mark these
newsgroups as your territory by smearing your excrement on them.

--
PJR :-)
http://pjr.gotdns.org/

[Will Dockery]

Peter J Ross wrote:
>
> you might learn what a sestina is

I have it pretty well figured out after writing 5 or 6 of them last
year.

Honeytrip Sestina
>
> Beads of sweat driving on 280,
> thinking about a lonesome wildflower.
> Cross country for this honeytrip,
> going down to incant a shadowmusic,
> joined on stage by her fiddle,
> swear to god I really miss her.
>
> She knows that I've missed her,
> she drives alone on highway 280.
> Her grandfather also played fiddle,
> and grew gov'ment wildflowers.
> Let him play his shadowmusic,
> as we recall the honeytrip.
>
> Backpacked, hitchhiked to honeytrip,
> waterfall spray did mist her,
> we formed a band to play shadowmusic.
> Down in Salem, on Highway 280,
> saw the sign of Project Wildflower,
> a contra agent but plays good fiddle.
>
> In the night sirens played fiddle,
> rustling wail of honey trip.
> Behind her ear was a wildflower,
> I knew some day I would miss her.
> Looking for tea olive on 280,
> to play a few hours of shadowmusic.
>
> Down a moonlit mile wild shadowmusic,
> Bibb Mill burned as he played fiddle.
> Westbound down Highway 280,
> like a hound for the honeytrip,
> after all her lies I still missed her,
> blowing kisses from a field of wildflowers.
>
> Sang a melody like "Wildwood Flower",
> she made it her own kind of shadowmusic.
> When he stepped on stage we called him mister,
> ghost of Sgt. Fury playing show fiddle.
> The only crown prince of honey trip,
> people parked and walked from 280.
>
> Smell the wildflowers, surrounded by shadowmusic,
> I miss her and her grandfather's fiddle.
> Lonesome old honeytrip, in a hollow off 280.
>
> -Will Dockery

--
Poetry & Music of Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Will Dockery]

"ggamble" <ggasfly @bitter.liar.net> wrote:
>
> Keep doing the dockery dance

Glad you're not to "busy" to enjoy dancing with me, old pal!

Writeen any new poetry lately? Heh... "We know."

> > It's interesting that, unlike me, you assume that homosexuality can't
> > be implied without an insult being intended.
>
> And what did your pal intend when he pasted stolen photos (which is
> both copyright theft & intellectual property theft, as you know) of
> people we know (no reason to name names at this late date, right,
> PJR?) onto stolen photographs of gay porn & whatever the stolen
> photograph below comes from:
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/ginopiper/PDWilsonAndOtherPics#5226684879005292610
>
> I don't actually have the photos where homosexuality was not only
> implied by your friend, but his fantasies were vividly depicted, and
> caused the similarly famous statement from Karla:
>
> http://www.n-n-a.com/recreational/post-611037.html
>
> "...I have no idea what most of you mean when you bash someone by
> depicting them in homosexual acts, whether it is with words or
> pictures. What I mean is, using it here may not mean that you're
> anti-gay, homophobic, sexist, etc. I have no idea. But the cheap shot
> isn't helpful and promotes sexist and homophobic thinking..."
> -Karla Rogers
>
> Anyway, this is just another example of your bland hypocrisy, PJR, and
> example of why anyone reading the newsgroups shouldn't trust a word
> you type.

--
"Shadowville Speedway" CD on Artemis Records:
http://www.artemisrecords.net/dockeryconley.html

[Will Dockery]

Peter J Ross said:
>Karla said:
>>Will Dockery wrote:
>
> >>> "That sounds like a repeat of the way Tom Bishop ended his friendship
> >>> with me, when he did a "Michael Cook" on Karla's poem, and put it,
> >>> almost word-for-word with a video on his website, I, like you,
> >>> "reviewed the evidence, I came up with my honest conclusion", which
> >>> was completely on Karla's side. It helped that I had been through
> >>> almost exactly the same situation the year before with the theft of my
> >>> "Karma Bombs" poem (which is a famous story, no need to repeat here,
> >>> heh)."
>
> > you accepted what Cook offered.

Yes, after stealing "Karma Bombs" from me, Michael Cook turned the
recording over to me, at which point I added a "Will Dockery" credit
line, which he had for whatever reason left of, thus trying to pass
the work off as his own.

> It certainly should not be "over and done with".

But it is, PJR. Michael Cook stole my poem "Karma Bombs", made a word-
for-word recording of it (this time I use that term %100 correctly,
Karla), as Cook stole my poem, didn't change a word of it, but managed
to leave any credit off his version to me as the writer of the poem
(as well as the owner, who he never asked my permission to use the
poem, either).

These facts make Michael Cook a copyright abuser, poetry thief and
plagiarist, but since he gave the recording to me to use, and backed
off, it is indeed "over and done with" because I want it to be. I own
the rights, and also have the right to choose what is done with my
property, the "Karma Bombs" poem.

> I don't remember Mr Cook, alias God, "offering"

Well, mainly what he did was "take" and "steal"--- and Karla, the
roots of the term "borrowed" is here, as Cook responded that's what he
had done when:

Dockery: "Hey! You stole my poem!"

Cook: "Not stolen, borrowed."

> Mr Cook gave permission to host Mr Cook's recording on another site,

No, that's not really accurate at all, PJR, since the "Karma Bombs"
poem was stolen by him in the first place, he had no rights to it at
all, and was not authorized to give "permission" as to the use of my
poem in any way.

--
Poetry & Music of Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

[Peter J Ross]

In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Thu, 28 Oct 2010 01:48:33 -0700 (PDT),
Will Dockery <***@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

I was talking about you, not to you, Dreckery.

If ever I think your opinion is worth having, I'll ask for it - if the
men in white coats will let me.


--
PJR :-)

[Will Dockery]

Peter J Ross said:
>
> I was talking about you, not to you

No, PJR, you were *lying* about me, which I corrected:

> > >>> "That sounds like a repeat of the way Tom Bishop ended his friendship
> > >>> with me, when he did a "Michael Cook" on Karla's poem, and put it,
> > >>> almost word-for-word with a video on his website, I, like you,
> > >>> "reviewed the evidence, I came up with my honest conclusion", which
> > >>> was completely on Karla's side. It helped that I had been through
> > >>> almost exactly the same situation the year before with the theft of my
> > >>> "Karma Bombs" poem (which is a famous story, no need to repeat here,
> > >>> heh)."
>
> > > you accepted what Cook offered.
>
> Yes, after stealing "Karma Bombs" from me, Michael Cook turned the
> recording over to me, at which point I added a "Will Dockery" credit
> line, which he had for whatever reason left of, thus trying to pass
> the work off as his own.
>
> > It certainly should not be "over and done with".
>
> But it is, PJR. Michael Cook stole my poem "Karma Bombs", made a word-
> for-word recording of it (this time I use that term %100 correctly,
> Karla), as Cook stole my poem, didn't change a word of it, but managed
> to leave any credit off his version to me as the writer of the poem
> (as well as the owner, who he never asked my permission to use the
> poem, either).
>
> These facts make Michael Cook a copyright abuser, poetry thief and
> plagiarist, but since he gave the recording to me to use, and backed
> off, it is indeed "over and done with" because I want it to be. I own
> the rights, and also have the right to choose what is done with my
> property, the "Karma Bombs" poem.
>
> > I don't remember Mr Cook, alias God, "offering"
>
> Well, mainly what he did was "take" and "steal"--- and Karla, the
> roots of the term "borrowed" is here, as Cook responded that's what he
> had done when:
>
> Dockery: "Hey! You stole my poem!"
>
> Cook: "Not stolen, borrowed."
>
> > Mr Cook gave permission to host Mr Cook's recording on another site,
>
> No, that's not really accurate at all, PJR, since the "Karma Bombs"
> poem was stolen by him in the first place, he had no rights to it at
> all, and was not authorized to give "permission" as to the use of my
> poem in any way.

I note that the truth must sting, PJR, for you to have to snip the
entire post above to slide in one of your silly one-liner insults.

Try again, pal.

--
She Sleeps Tight / Will Dockery (video):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGY157cpiU

[Will Dockery]

In this marvelous interview with Kerouac I never saw before, he gives some
interesting and instructive thoughts on the creation of poetry, and Haiku
specifically:

http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/4260/the-art-of-fiction-no-41-jack-kerouac

================[Begin quoted text]=========================

INTERVIEWER
You have said that haiku is not written spontaneously but is reworked and
revised. Is this true of all your poetry? Why must the method for writing
poetry differ from that of prose?

KEROUAC

No, first; haiku is best reworked and revised. I know, I tried. It has to be
completely economical, no foliage and flowers and language rhythm, it has to
be a simple little picture in three little lines. At least that's the way
the old masters did it, spending months on three little lines and coming up,
say, with:

In the abandoned boat,

The hail

Bounces about.

That's Shiki. But as for my regular English verse, I knocked it off fast
like the prose, using, get this, the size of the notebook page for the form
and length of the poem, just as a musician has to get out, a jazz musician,
his statement within a certain number of bars, within one chorus, which
spills over into the next, but he has to stop where the chorus page stops.
And finally, too, in poetry you can be completely free to say anything you
want, you don't have to tell a story, you can use secret puns, that's why I
always say, when writing prose, "No time for poetry now, get your plain
tale."

[Drinks are served.]

INTERVIEWER

How do you write haiku?

KEROUAC

Haiku? You want to hear haiku? You see you got to compress into three short
lines a great big story. First you start with a haiku situation-so you see a
leaf, as I told her the other night, falling on the back of a sparrow during
a great big October wind storm. A big leaf falls on the back of a little
sparrow. How you going to compress that into three lines? Now in Japanese
you got to compress it into seventeen syllables. We don't have to do that in
American-or English-because we don't have the same syllabic bullshit that
your Japanese language has. So you say: "Little sparrow"-you don't have to
say little-everybody knows a sparrow is little because they fall so you say"

Sparrow

with big leaf on its back-

windstorm

No good, don't work, I reject it.

A little sparrow

when an autumn leaf suddenly sticks to its back

from the wind.

Hah, that does it. No, it's a little bit too long. See? It's already a
little bit too long, Berrigan, you know what I mean?

INTERVIEWER

Seems like there's an extra word or something, like when. How about leaving
out when? Say:

A sparrow

an autumn leaf suddenly sticks to its back-

from the wind!

KEROUAC

Hey, that's all right. I think when was the extra word. You got the right
idea there, O'Hara! "A sparrow, an autumn leaf suddenly"-we don't have to
say suddenly do we?

A sparrow

an autumn leaf sticks to its back-

from the wind!

[Kerouac writes final version into a spiral notebook.]

INTERVIEWER

Suddenly is absolutely the kind of word we don't need there. When you
publish that will you give me a footnote saying you asked me a couple of
questions?

KEROUAC

[writes] Berrigan noticed. Right?

INTERVIEWER

Do you write poetry very much? Do you write other poetry besides haiku?

KEROUAC

It's hard to write haiku. I write long silly Indian poems. You want to hear
my long silly Indian poem?

INTERVIEWER

What kind of Indian?

KEROUAC

Iroquois. As you know from looking at me. [Reads from notebook.]

On the lawn on the way to the store

forty-four years old for the neighbors to hear

hey, looka, Ma I hurt myself. Especially

with that squirt.

What's that mean?

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--
Music & poetry from Will Dockery & Friends:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery

[DoubleV]

one hell of an interview

[Will Dockery]

On Feb 6, 3:28 am, DoubleV <***@localnet.com> wrote:
> one hell of an interview

Kerouac talked the way he wrote, always with layers of meaning, and
humor.

[Will Dockery]

Another lost post from the Drafts archive:

> > I don't mean nothin' by it. It's just a casual observation. You know
> > that choked up emotional feeling you get in your throat sometimes?
> > That's what I mean. That's how you come across to me lately; like
> > that, all choked up.
>
> On my audio tracks?

No, here. I know it's an odd perception. I'm an odd perceiver.

--
Poetry and music of Will Dockery:
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery